We come together not because we may identify as women; rather, we come together because we believe that we can only be free and live better lives with the end of capitalism, white supremacy, Western empire, and patriarchy. - Feminist Library

[IwantToRetire]

We write this statement in the spirit of radical feminist collectives that have come before us such as OWAAD and the BWG, who took firm stances against apartheid and settler colonialism in South Africa and Palestine and were founded on the principle of transnational solidarity. Our solidarity is based on political and ethical principles that exceed gender. Sara Salem writes “We come together not because we may identify as women; rather, we come together because we believe that we can only be free and live better lives with the end of capitalism, white supremacy, Western empire, and patriarchy.” Transnational feminist practice requires us to analyse how people in different geographical spaces are subject to unequal power relations and ensure that every person has access to dignified life regardless of the borders that separate us.

https://feministlibrary.co.uk/statement-of-solidarity-with-palestine/

I'm posting this not to comment on the situation between Israel and Gaza (although realise some might want to) but because it seems another example of groups originally established on the basis on the oppression of women as a sex classhaving been colonised (to use their language) by women who see it as a platform to advance their personal politics.

Similar to this supposed manifesto to lobby MPs about women's rights posted here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4900356-vawg-is-a-gendered-issue-which-is-deeply-rooted-in-societal-inequality-it-is-violence-that-is-directed-against-a-woman-because-she-is-a-woman-or-that-affects-women-disproportionately

Large gatherings like FiLia might be satisfying to attend, but if groups set up to support women are being occupied by women who dont see the oppression of women as being directly because of their sex, it means we are even further away from putting feminism into action.

ie what is the point of theory if there is no practice of it.

The Soviet union had guaranteed holiday for everyone, and homes for everyone.

In fairness, quite a lot of those holidays were in Siberia and you didn't come back.

I'm no supporter of communism but it could well be that those who implement communist systems were not that competent or nice (which could be said about any number of other countries with different political structure)

Personally, I tend to think one holocaust can be put down to carelessness but once you get past 3 there are probably flaws in the system. Nobody's arguing that National Socialism was just badly implemented.

I don't think I've ever seen anything more blindly stupid and frightening on the FWR boards than: Communism not's so bad: Yes 60 million people were killed by their own regimes but on the other hand there were free holidays for some people.

Indeed. I struggle to imagine such insensitivity over any comparable historical phenomenon:

'Slavery was like a free holiday'
'At least the Nazis made good cars'
'When women didn't have the vote we had more time to think about what to cook for tea'

If my family had been murdered by Communists I'd be pretty pissed off by the apologists.

Personally, I tend to think one holocaust can be put down to carelessness but once you get past 3 there are probably flaws in the system. Nobody's arguing that National Socialism was just badly implemented.

I know you think you are being ever so righteous, but this reply above could equally be said about capitalism. It might not appear to be as bad because it isn't overtly state organised, but many many people have their lives destroyed by capitalism.

So my comment about any system depending on who implements it is actually the issue. eg northern european capitalism is streets away in terms of negative outcomes compared to the USA.

Not forgetting of course (without getting into current issues) many aspects of early Israel ie the Kibbutz were based on socialist collectivism, where the "ideals" of the adults meant that children were raised as a community group not in families and ownership was by the collective.

Obviously how politics are practiced and acted on are as much a reflection of the society it grew out of. I suspect for those at the bottom end of society found their lives were probably no different than living under Czarist Russia. It was just a different hierarchical structure oppressing them. ie its the hierarchy.

I am, by the way, not in the least interested in communism, but using facile tropes such as 1 is carelessness more is a fundmental flaw is clearly not actually an answer. All sorts of breakthroughs occur after many repititions with negative outcomes in an attempt to get it right. We wouldn't say that about scientific breakthroughs.

Or in fact marriage. How many marriages are actually happy. I am all for saying lets throw marriage out of the window, because based on the number of divorces, let alone the appalling violence some women experience, these combined exhibit that there are more than "flaws in the system".

Marriage has been tried and tested over millenia as the best system to raise children. Communism has been tried over 100 years and constantly failed, not just Russia/China but even Czech Republic, Cuba etc. I think fascism gets a worse rap as it is associated with racism -ie Hitler killed millions because of racism rather than millions killed under Communism for opposing the system etc. I personally think capitalism only works well with a moral system underpinning it which is Christianity in this country. Now that has been thrown under the bus, capitalism has led to extreme consumerism and selfishness.

The worst aspects of capitalism were kept under some constraints by the competing ideology of communism, and perhaps vice versa, though I have not thought about that as much. Once the Soviet Union and its bloc fell, capitalism has produced more of those negative aspects than was the case when it had real competing ideologies to worry about.

I tend to believe in mixed systems, which allow some of the best aspects of both while limiting the worst aspects of both. Where that combination is met (Nordic countries in the recent past), life is better for most people.

This is not some new thing - radical feminism has encompassed anti-capitalism and anti-colonialism since the 60s. It was very much rooted in the commune movement.

Of course there are problems with capitalism but there have been hundreds of goes at capitalism and none have exterminated large proportions of their population as part of their implementation. Even the 'best' versions of communism have imprisoned and killed to achieve their goals.

It's not remotely comparable between the two systems.

It's not overly righteous to say that Communism and Naziism are evil. Tens of millions murdered is not merely a 'negative outcome' to a test that should be repeated to 'get it right'.

Of course there are problems with capitalism but there have been hundreds of goes at capitalism and none have exterminated large proportions of their population as part of their implementation.

...as opposed to exterminating large proportions of other country's populations.

Just since 9/11:

Key Findings

• 432,093 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.

• An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.

• More than 7.6 million children under five in post-9/11 war zones are suffering from acute malnutrition

• War deaths from malnutrition and a damaged health system and environment likely far outnumber deaths from combat.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians

That link seems to think the US has invaded Syria and Yemen, so I'm not sure how good it is.

I'm no fan of US foreign policy but if you think the US is just as bad as communist China, Russia or Cambodia then we have little to discuss.

In the late 1980's the Soviet Union loaded up their stuff into their tanks and went home. The Warsaw Pact countries that they left behind had enjoyed 40 years of a Communist paradise. Why didn't they stay with Communism?

Totally agree with this. The current Librarians didn't build anything - they captured it.

(I totally regret handing over my old Spare Ribs to the Feminist Library, not least because I don't trust them not to get all Stalinist about the bits of the collection that is second-wave, and make it disappear.)

"Of course there are problems with capitalism but there have been hundreds of goes at capitalism and none have exterminated large proportions of their population as part of their implementation."

<The East India Company has entered the chat>