Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Trans prisoner who was cleared to go women's prison

37 replies

Electricblankettime · 16/10/2023 00:26

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12633157/Scotland-transgender-prisoner-convicted-assaulting-guards-life-sentence.html

Is isla bryson case hadn't highlighted what was going on this males move to a women's prison would have happened. With such violent tendencies how many women would have been hurt?

Trans prisoner convicted of assaulting guards during her life sentence

Tiffany Scott, 32, went on trial last week and was convicted of four assaults, behaving in a threatening or abusive manner and a vandalism charge. She is being held at HMP Low Moss.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12633157/Scotland-transgender-prisoner-convicted-assaulting-guards-life-sentence.html

OP posts:
stayflufft · 16/10/2023 00:29

‘Tiffany’. Bloody hell. It angers me so much that this man’s crimes will be recorded as being committed by a woman. He is not a woman and never will be.

ATowerOfGiraffes · 16/10/2023 07:31

The use of She and Her throughout the article really bothered me. I would have preferred they use surname "Scott" or alternative linguistic gymnastics.

SunnieShine · 16/10/2023 07:34

ATowerOfGiraffes · 16/10/2023 07:31

The use of She and Her throughout the article really bothered me. I would have preferred they use surname "Scott" or alternative linguistic gymnastics.

Or simply refer to him as a man, since that is what he is? Call me old fashioned...

Theloftmonster · 16/10/2023 07:41

I like the use of she in this piece, especially with the photo of a hairy arsed criminal next to it. It will annoy people who haven't peaked yet, flagging up how ridiculous it is. It isn't written for those GC already, it's written to educate average Joe.

Chersfrozenface · 16/10/2023 07:47

Theloftmonster · 16/10/2023 07:41

I like the use of she in this piece, especially with the photo of a hairy arsed criminal next to it. It will annoy people who haven't peaked yet, flagging up how ridiculous it is. It isn't written for those GC already, it's written to educate average Joe.

Some papers (which are regularly derided as lying right-wing rags on MN, but there you go) did the same thing when reporting on Isla Bryson.

Used female pronouns and brilliantly chosen photos.

So kept to the practice they are pressured into by the legal system and the Independent Press Standards Organisation of using chosen pronouns. But also suggested the truth very strongly.

Tessisme · 16/10/2023 07:49

Theloftmonster · 16/10/2023 07:41

I like the use of she in this piece, especially with the photo of a hairy arsed criminal next to it. It will annoy people who haven't peaked yet, flagging up how ridiculous it is. It isn't written for those GC already, it's written to educate average Joe.

I'm inclined to agree. I have seen a few articles like this and nothing jars more than 'she displayed her penis' or some other such ludicrous terminology. It very effectively draws attention to the Emperor's new clothes.

gotomomo · 16/10/2023 07:54

There does need to be some flexibility though, a transperson post surgery fully transitioned for a non violent offence is just not the same as a violent person, perhaps a sexual offence who only proclaims to be trans once in the justice system.

I don't think people should have the right to commence transitioning once in the criminal justice system, but allow common sense judgments to be made on welfare and practicality grounds for those who transitioned. This flexibility should never be applied in sexual offence cases.

popebishop · 16/10/2023 07:57

Transitioning is finished when you declare you are a woman. Why would you insist people have any surgery in order to be treated differently from other male people?

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 07:59

Referring to these people as "she" is fucking obscene. When do we stop playing this game?

Milarky · 16/10/2023 08:14

There does need to be some flexibility though, a transperson post surgery fully transitioned for a non violent offence is just not the same as a violent person, perhaps a sexual offence who only proclaims to be trans once in the justice system.

Nope still a man. A third space maybe, but def not in a women's prison.

catduckgoose · 16/10/2023 08:15

@gotomomo

Men's prisons already have provisions for vulnerable prisoners, there's no reason to house any male in the women's prisons.

Angrycat2768 · 16/10/2023 08:16

This person hadn't even made the minimal effort to turn into a woman. At least Isla Bryson bought a bad wig.

Milarky · 16/10/2023 08:20

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 07:59

Referring to these people as "she" is fucking obscene. When do we stop playing this game?

There was a really good thread on here a while ago which explained why this happened and who was signed up to IPSO. The fines are huge up to £1m if you break it. Not all media outlets are signed up to it though.

It was a great informative thread, wish I could find it again. Made me less angry when I read that "she" shite.

Although don't know why the Mail doesn't just break it! It would be a great headline"Fined £1m for calling a man She!"

Milarky · 16/10/2023 08:25

AdamRyan · 16/10/2023 08:17

Scott, 26, smeared excrement over her cell, tore a drip needle out of his own arm, ripped up supposedly tear-proof clothing, and assaulted four warders and a prison nurse during days of "dirty protest"

Interesting that most of the article is written as he, apart for this slip up. I wonder if it was she first then amended to he? Are they signed up to IPSO?

  • Sheriff Derek Livingston said: "I'm satisfied that's who he is." Scott shouted: "I'm not 'he' anything – she."*

Good one Sheriff Livingstone!!

ArabellaScott · 16/10/2023 08:55

gotomomo · 16/10/2023 07:54

There does need to be some flexibility though, a transperson post surgery fully transitioned for a non violent offence is just not the same as a violent person, perhaps a sexual offence who only proclaims to be trans once in the justice system.

I don't think people should have the right to commence transitioning once in the criminal justice system, but allow common sense judgments to be made on welfare and practicality grounds for those who transitioned. This flexibility should never be applied in sexual offence cases.

You are seeing this from the pov of the male only.

Now try putting yourself in the shoes of a female prisoner.

She is likely to have experienced male violence. Should she be forced to shower with a male?

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 08:59

ArabellaScott · 16/10/2023 08:55

You are seeing this from the pov of the male only.

Now try putting yourself in the shoes of a female prisoner.

She is likely to have experienced male violence. Should she be forced to shower with a male?

Show quote history

This.

If you believe there is something about you as a person which would make the regular punishment for committing a crime worse than it would be for the average person, you just need to try harder not to commit that crime.

This is the case for me, incidentally. A criminal conviction would result in me being struck off and losing my career, even if I avoided jail time. So I try not to break the law.

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 09:00

Also, I believed until quite recently that people with criminal convictions were not allowed to change their identities. Now I know this is not the case, but I don't understand why it is not the case.

MassiveWordSalad · 16/10/2023 09:13

I find it interesting how often these men change not just their first names, but their surnames too. I wonder why?

And his name seems to be the only thing he has changed.

MichelleScarn · 16/10/2023 09:20

Chersfrozenface · 16/10/2023 07:47

Some papers (which are regularly derided as lying right-wing rags on MN, but there you go) did the same thing when reporting on Isla Bryson.

Used female pronouns and brilliantly chosen photos.

So kept to the practice they are pressured into by the legal system and the Independent Press Standards Organisation of using chosen pronouns. But also suggested the truth very strongly.

Show quote history

Oh yes! Awaiting all the 'how can you believe that you this is true?!! It's in the Daily Maaaiill' usual!
By posters who try and show their kind, accepting personas by saying they'll only trust The Grundiad!

IcakethereforeIam · 16/10/2023 09:20

I think this was the guy who, because of his, sorry, her gender identity had to be searched by female prison wardens. I expect none of those women were shrinking violets but the experience must have been very unpleasant, potentially dangerous, and then they have tomorrow to look forward to, to do it all again. For all I know it's still going on. It seems most unions are captured, I don't know if anyone is standing up for them.

He came, literally, within hours of moving to a women's jail.

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 09:24

IcakethereforeIam · 16/10/2023 09:20

I think this was the guy who, because of his, sorry, her gender identity had to be searched by female prison wardens. I expect none of those women were shrinking violets but the experience must have been very unpleasant, potentially dangerous, and then they have tomorrow to look forward to, to do it all again. For all I know it's still going on. It seems most unions are captured, I don't know if anyone is standing up for them.

He came, literally, within hours of moving to a women's jail.

Edited

I think that if the trans activist community cares so much about transgender prisoners being searched by someone of the same gender identity as them, some trans women should volunteer to train as prison officers for this purpose.

RoyalCorgi · 16/10/2023 09:24

There was a really good thread on here a while ago which explained why this happened and who was signed up to IPSO. The fines are huge up to £1m if you break it. Not all media outlets are signed up to it though.

IPSO guidance changed recently. It's still not great, but I think that if papers decided to correctly sex male prisoners, then a complaint to IPSO wouldn't succeed. (Janice Turner, I think, did this a few months ago and there was no comeback.)

I truly believe the Mail calls people like this "she" because it wants to highlight the absurdity.

Chersfrozenface · 16/10/2023 09:29

MargotBamborough · 16/10/2023 09:24

I think that if the trans activist community cares so much about transgender prisoners being searched by someone of the same gender identity as them, some trans women should volunteer to train as prison officers for this purpose.

Show quote history

But that wouldn't be validating.

The trans activists / genderists argue as follows:

If the rule is that women prisoners (actual female ones) have to be searched by female officers, then transwomen have to be treated the same, because they are women.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 16/10/2023 09:29

gotomomo · 16/10/2023 07:54

There does need to be some flexibility though, a transperson post surgery fully transitioned for a non violent offence is just not the same as a violent person, perhaps a sexual offence who only proclaims to be trans once in the justice system.

I don't think people should have the right to commence transitioning once in the criminal justice system, but allow common sense judgments to be made on welfare and practicality grounds for those who transitioned. This flexibility should never be applied in sexual offence cases.

Thank heavens there is no such thing as a ‘common sense judgement’. There is statute book law, which should be the same for everyone. Judges have to interpret the laws and pass sentence in accordance. There are already plenty of instances where the ‘ public’ doesn’t agree with the sentence, there are even instances where sentence has been revised.

I don’t think a random MN member’s ‘common sense’ should be substituted for written law which can be changed or reformulated after due process.