Tired of this already

[Boundoverbyacat]

Since shitty Sunak declared the woman is a woman thing, my socials are full of friends claiming that trans people are under attack and if I don’t publicly declare my support then I am complicit in this.

Except I’m not

People can live their lives how they want, I don’t care what people want to dress like or who they want to be. Crack on. My only line is, if you have a penis, I don’t want you in women only spaces. That’s about it. My level of bigotry.

I don’t understand how it’s ended up amongst my peers that this makes me a transphobic bigot.

Also, I live and work in London, in a ‘trendy’ industry and I have come across ONE real life trans person. It’s a minor issue, not a major war. I can’t, and won’t, change my boundaries to accommodate a tiny tiny minority of people when the negative consequences could be so significant.

I can’t deal with this for another year until the election.

I have a similar problem. I genuinely have devoted a lot of my life so far to supporting LGBT people. I understand that there still are dangerous attitudes towards them. They face a lot of discrimination that stops them from living normal lives (getting housing, having families, getting jobs, etc).

However, I'm in a field that's dominated by men, where every single senior position is occupied by a man and the best junior positions are handed by them to other men. I have to work seven days a week just to keep job that pays much less and is much less stable. At one point, my PhD supervisor threatened to fire me if I didn't sleep with him and then he set me back years by passing around nasty rumours. When I was a kid, I had to give up sports at a certain point because there was no funding... And the men/boys I knew got paid-for training and games overseas. I won't continue the list because you get the picture.

At any rate, NOTHING is more man-like, in my opinion, than someone coming into women's spaces and demanding to control them. Trans women are women, but they are not biological women and simply have not had to face the same challenges. In my profession, schemes for supporting women are being dismantled in the name of trans rights and there are no longer toilets for women. Trans women can compete in sports and dominate every single one they're part of. I'm not comfortable talking about my most personal issues even with myself but anyone who doesn't proclaim their identity on their email signature gets the side-eye and is seen as someone not modern enough to be promoted.

I resent this and cannot say a word.

The majority of LGBTQ people are reasonable. It's just a few vocal activists who are responsible for most of this. And frightened/clueless Gen Zers who take advantage of what other women have gone through to get rights for them while helping to dismantle spaces for women. Yet I can't help but disengage from the activities I used to do in supporting LGBTQ rights. The language used about women like JK Rowling is absolutely disgusting and I find I'm getting more and more fed up.

Trans women are women, but they are not biological women

What does that mean? What is a woman if not a biological woman?

@AllProperTeaIsTheft, a biological woman is one who has had to deal with the challenges of being a woman since birth.

Gender is a construct (how people identify). So anyone can identify as a woman. However, those who have biological physical characteristics of women do generally have distinct experiences compared to biological men.

I mean anyone can identify as anything. Whatsoever. If it’s a construct. So that’s a non starter

@Boundoverbyacat, I don't understand what you're saying. That's just how the word works, what it means. It is an important part of the problem of figuring out exactly who needs to have what rights

It's simple. Women, and by that you know who I mean, maintain their ages-acquired and established rights to sex-segregated spaces. Anyone else who wants to call themself a woman can do so in their own time, in the company of others who feel the same, as long as they respect that yellow line on the floor and the sign on the door that says Only Women Here.

Cos playing women can meet anywhere else.
It's so fucking simple.

The people who call themselves “trans women” are men.

They aren’t women and never will be.

If you believe a “trans woman” is a woman, then can you explain what you think a “woman” is?

Here we go! Another round of women versus those who say they're women on trans Reddit.

@RealityFan, I believe strongly (as I said above) that spaces for biological women need to be protected. However, it is a reality that words have meaning. Gender is a construct. You are hurting women by not making an effort to understand.

@Antst

Woman isn't a gender role, its a term of sex.

There is no good reason for the word to be repurposed into something else, and it is logically inconsistent to try.

I’m trying to understand, so please answer my question.

If you believe a “trans woman” is a woman, then can you explain what you think a “woman” is?

I've had enough of it too - there was an emergency safe space meeting at work today, to discuss the 'bigoted Tories' - an emotional email containing a pack of lies and whipping up of fervour and how to be allies - shocking.

You mean I'm hurting males who believe they're females?
The world can't be run on feelings. If Rachel Dolezal says I'm hurting her because I don't believe she's black, should I bow to her?
When Senator Elizabeth Warren says I'm hurting her because I didn't believe she's Native American, should I bow to her?
Because those are the claims.

Fackin H

Amazing really. Imagine women in an office North of the border forcing an emergency support meeting when Sturgeon was railroading Self ID, to slate her and her threat to women.

How much rope would that be given? Not even a threads-worth.

These people should go to Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, N. Korea for the day, and check out bigotedness for real.

At least it’s being discussed and is no longer invisible. How many barely concealed eye rolls did you count?

Maybe it's just time we all start talking about it. Calmly and politely, but far too many of us have been far too quiet for far too long.

Yeah it's driving me mad too. I'm finding it very hard not to comment on the hysterical call to arms and start arguments on my social media. Fuck off. I am a woman i was born a woman, my rights and protections are valid and needed. Yes I'm a biological woman but I don't need to add "biological" because it is THE ONLY TYPE OF WOMAN.

And please could we stop linking the T with the LGB .we have nothing in common nd the T is particularly dangerous around the L part.

Wow, that Sunak soundbyte has really set the cat amongst the pigeons. Meetings at work to fight bigotry, the virtue signalling is at max.

Isn't it simpler to just ignore "gender" and "constructs" here, and define man and woman off of biology?

Let's imagine that there is some socially constructed role for women, and a role for men.

Why think that identifying with a role should then change "man" to "woman"?

Isn't it easier to say that they are a gender non conforming man?

Maybe it's just time we all start talking about it. Calmly and politely, but far too many of us have been far too quiet for far too long.

This, with bells on.

I'm sure it is easier, but that's not how language or science works. Gender is not a physical characteristic, so why pretend it is? Our brains can deal with much more than we throw at them. We don't have to dumb down and I don't know why you'd want to unless you're trying to avoid dealing with reality.

I think you are the one avoiding reality @Antst . The reality is that a woman is a biological woman. There is no gender woman. A transwoman is a man. A transman is a woman.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft, a biological woman is one who has had to deal with the challenges of being a woman since birth.

The point I was trying to get the poster to recognise is that a woman is by definition a biological woman. There is no other kind of woman. There are women. And there are men who 'feel like' they are women. If I feel like a cat, does that mean I am one?