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Original poster

Well who'd a thunk? Swimming

85 replies

IcakethereforeIam · 03/10/2023 15:35

Actually, this does surprise me a little. I'd have thought someone would have entered if just for the prize money, assuming there's prize money.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-12588373/Swimming-World-Cups-open-races-transgender-swimmers-scrapped-entered-following-ban-competing-female-events.html

Swimming World Cup's 'open' races for transgender swimmers scrapped

DAVID COVERDALE: The first 'open' races for transgender swimmers have been scrapped after no entries were received for this week's World Cup meeting in Berlin.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-12588373/Swimming-World-Cups-open-races-transgender-swimmers-scrapped-entered-following-ban-competing-female-events.html

OP posts:
CyberCritical · 03/10/2023 22:02

sleepyscientist · 03/10/2023 21:43

Nothing to do with them being pushed out and highlighted as different at all. People need to remember this could be your kids in 10/20years time. Suffering gender dysphoria, having the courage to undergo treatment and then being excluded for having been ill.

I very much hope that if my daughter were to experience gender dysphoria and decide to present according to male stereotypes, she would still have the integrity to not impose herself into male spaces. Sport isn't really an issue because let's face it, in the vast majority of sports Trans Men cannot be competitive against males.

Everyone with more than 1 brain cell knows that males have inherent physical advantages over females. I am as tall as my husband (who does no exercise and would freely admit he's unfit) and weigh more than him but he can lift me and in a physical fight I would be seriously damaged.

Females are not here to make males feel better about themselves, girls and women who have trained and sacrificed to be the best in their sports category should not be expected to stand back and let a male win so that they can feel like they 'fit in'.

Portakalkedi · 03/10/2023 22:08

What idiot thought there would be anyone entering? Probably the same type of naive person who says let's have male, female and unisex toilets .... they are missing the whole point, which is for certain male bodied people to intimidate or otherwise have power over women.

porridgecake · 03/10/2023 22:13

sleepyscientist · 03/10/2023 21:43

Nothing to do with them being pushed out and highlighted as different at all. People need to remember this could be your kids in 10/20years time. Suffering gender dysphoria, having the courage to undergo treatment and then being excluded for having been ill.

If you are a scientist you must know that children put on puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, having surgery, will be so physically damaged and unwell it will be impossible for them to participate in any kind of sport. Tragically they are likely to have osteoporosis, increased risk of cancer, stroke and heart disease, continence issues and chronic pain. Hormone treatment (testosterone) I understand, can also cause raised blood pressure and damaged sight.
So participation in sport is probably going to be the least of their problems.

SabrinaThwaite · 03/10/2023 22:15

Hellocatshome · 03/10/2023 20:37

Have you got a link to the times?

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Here you go:

https://resources.fina.org/fina/document/2023/09/21/0e9ba62f-dd33-41a8-abf5-2e79194d698c/2023-09-15-SWC-2023-Berlin-GER-Open-Category-Registration-Form.pdf

Well who'd a thunk? Swimming
SpiderMaam · 03/10/2023 22:16

Yep. Here’s a post that was made on Reddit recently, blockers and cross sex hormones in childhood do not result in athletically competitive bodies.

You’d think a scientist would know this.

Well who'd a thunk? Swimming
Hellocatshome · 03/10/2023 22:19

SabrinaThwaite · 03/10/2023 22:15

Show quote history

Thank you. If it was all about winning medals someone would definitely have entered as they are certainly easily attainable times for competitive male swimmers. So I can only conclude it isn't about winning but about beating females.

SabrinaThwaite · 03/10/2023 22:22

Helleofabore · 03/10/2023 21:36

So no one entered a race where they could potentially easily win and set a world record for the new category? I mean, not one entrant?

That must mean that these male athletes are simply not interested in competing unless their misogynistic demands are met. Meaning so much sunlight that I am wearing sunnies at night!!!

Readers it was always based on both validation and beating women and girls. And potentially using the female changing space. Nothing else.

I was looking at the times - they’re around the Scottish LC record times for 12 yo boys and 13 yo girls.

Easy pickings right?

SabrinaThwaite · 03/10/2023 23:32

ManuelBensonsLeftBoot · 03/10/2023 20:45

Could Thomas not identify as sprinter? 🌊

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Brava!

Datun · 04/10/2023 00:13

sleepyscientist · 03/10/2023 21:43

Nothing to do with them being pushed out and highlighted as different at all. People need to remember this could be your kids in 10/20years time. Suffering gender dysphoria, having the courage to undergo treatment and then being excluded for having been ill.

Ill children who have been prevented from physical maturity by experimental treatment don't become successful athletes.

It's utterly ghoulish the lengths adult men will go to defend their repellent behaviour.

WallaceinAnderland · 04/10/2023 00:20

Maerchentante · 03/10/2023 15:57

That there are no takers at a World Cup event doesn't necessarily surprise me. It would be more interesting if there'd be people signing up at regular competitions. Especially in the Master's category.

They are planning on having an open category for Masters as well so we will have to wait and see.

EtiennePalmiere · 04/10/2023 03:43

SpiderMaam · 03/10/2023 22:16

Yep. Here’s a post that was made on Reddit recently, blockers and cross sex hormones in childhood do not result in athletically competitive bodies.

You’d think a scientist would know this.

That person's story is very sad but proves nothing regarding women-only sport. It's only one person, you don't know for sure that they still wouldn't have significant advantages over biological women, and many if not most trans women haven't had the surgeries or even extensive hormonal treatments - I believe Thomas just started a bit of hormones as an adult, and definitely didn't have surgery

Wehadabetamax · 04/10/2023 06:55

I think Spidermaam was making the point to sleepyscientist that the trans athletes of the future who have been on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones will not be fit for sport.

Hellocatshome · 04/10/2023 07:12

WallaceinAnderland · 04/10/2023 00:20

They are planning on having an open category for Masters as well so we will have to wait and see.

Show quote history

They already have open categories in the low level swimmer meets. My son is 13 and the heats used to be split into categories called boys and girls or male and female they are now split into female and open/male.

I'm not sure if that means the open are competing for medals against the boys or if they would be split out for medal purposes it has never come up yet.

What it does mean though is there could be a trans athlete competing in the same heat as children.

ArabellaScott · 04/10/2023 07:25

SpiderMaam · 03/10/2023 22:16

Yep. Here’s a post that was made on Reddit recently, blockers and cross sex hormones in childhood do not result in athletically competitive bodies.

You’d think a scientist would know this.

God that's awful to read. That poor kid.

How does the saying go?

Start thinking now of excuses for why you supported medical experimentation on children

ArabellaScott · 04/10/2023 07:37

sleepyscientist · 03/10/2023 21:43

Nothing to do with them being pushed out and highlighted as different at all. People need to remember this could be your kids in 10/20years time. Suffering gender dysphoria, having the courage to undergo treatment and then being excluded for having been ill.

I have a great deal of compassion for any child who is caught up in this madness, who is badly let down by a health service that has somehow allowed 'gender' bullshit to infiltrate and allowed harm to be visited on vulnerable children, by lobbyists who have terrorised families with terrible lies and threats, by an education service that has colluded, and a media that has shared bullshit propaganda, and a government so weak it allowed laws to pass that claim human beings can change sex.

What a fucking mess. And yes, these poor kids will suffer the worst. They've been sold a terrible, terrible lie. I don't know how on earth they will ever make peace with such a calamitous situation.

SpiderMaam · 04/10/2023 08:11

ArabellaScott · 04/10/2023 07:25

God that's awful to read. That poor kid.

How does the saying go?

Start thinking now of excuses for why you supported medical experimentation on children

Show quote history

It’s awful isn’t it?

A higher dose of oestrogen might help with the bones density issue but will likely exacerbate the autoimmune disorders.
And switching to exogenous testosterone is reportedly awful, according to post operative detransitioners Shapeshifter and Ritchie -as it wakes the remaining inverted penile tissue back up.

It’s not possible make an 11 year old boy grow up to be a woman and it’s time we stopped pretending that it is.

And to bring this back on topic, open categories allow for transgender people to participate in sport without the pretence that humans can change sex.

That pretence is contributing to a phenomenon that renders children unable to participate in sports.
Adult transitioners are completely different to paediatric transitioners and the breeders and desires of adult transitioners must not be allowed to affect children. Not OUR children, nor anyone else’s.

porridgecake · 04/10/2023 08:44

Yes. Intact adult straight male can be a woman if dressed up in stereotypical short skirt and high heels. Nothing else required.
Confused/ vulnerable/ autistic child must be put on puberty blockers, cross sex hormones then surgically mutilated asap.

Helleofabore · 04/10/2023 08:46

sleepyscientist · 03/10/2023 21:43

Nothing to do with them being pushed out and highlighted as different at all. People need to remember this could be your kids in 10/20years time. Suffering gender dysphoria, having the courage to undergo treatment and then being excluded for having been ill.

the emotional manipulation in this post is a good reminder that some people have been convinced that sports are unnecessarily divided by sex.

sleepyscientist the science has been done. At the moment each and every new study has shown male advantage is not removed after puberty has started. And there are doubts that the male advantage from before puberty is removed either.

Please go and read the studies and come back and tell us where the studies are wrong.

Stop using emotional manipulation to leverage male people into female sports categories. If that was not your aim, then you must be operating under the mistaken belief that male trans people are ‘banned’ from all sport. No. Just the female category.

loislovesstewie · 04/10/2023 09:17

I think we will look back and wonder how we have got to the situation where instead of treating a medical condition by talking therapy we have allowed people to have surgery and cross sex hormones to their detriment. And we will wonder why so many people actually thought that TWAW came to be accepted without thought.

porridgecake · 04/10/2023 09:34

loislovesstewie · 04/10/2023 09:17

I think we will look back and wonder how we have got to the situation where instead of treating a medical condition by talking therapy we have allowed people to have surgery and cross sex hormones to their detriment. And we will wonder why so many people actually thought that TWAW came to be accepted without thought.

Not just people, CHILDREN. This is the very worst aspect of this.

loislovesstewie · 04/10/2023 10:30

I agree. I'm wondering if in years to come, those who are suffering ill health as a result of this will speak up. There needs to be transparency and that isn't happening at present.

RudsyFarmer · 04/10/2023 10:33

So where are the transgender athletes competing if not in the designated space?

MagpiePi · 04/10/2023 10:49

RudsyFarmer · 04/10/2023 10:33

So where are the transgender athletes competing if not in the designated space?

They must be interpreting ’you can’t compete in women’s categories if you are a man, even if you wear lippy and heels’ as ‘you can’t do your sport anymore’

Nothing to do with being prevented from being validated / getting kicks from / it being an easy win by competing in women’s categories, surely?

lechiffre55 · 04/10/2023 13:35

How long before "I haven't competed since they changed the rules" articles being interpreted as I wasn't allowed to compete rather than I chose not to compete when I wasn't allowed to compete against females?
Whoever wants bet against this choose your odds they matter not to me I'll take the bet.

Helleofabore · 04/10/2023 15:05

You are very right to ask that lechiffre? This will be the approach they will take. They seem to have positioned themselves that they may have to take that approach with all the genocide discussion I feel.

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