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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex Offenders to be Banned from Changing Name and Gender

50 replies

IcakethereforeIam · 03/10/2023 01:16

Article in the Times, it has been archived.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-sex-offenders-detection-change-name-fsctkkmjt

The journalist gets the name of the Act wrong. From a quick read I'm not sure if this will apply just to England or if it will be retroactive.

Suella Braverman to ban sex offenders from changing name and gender

Suella Braverman will announce today a lifetime ban on sex offenders changing their name and gender in an attempt to close a loophole that is allowing crimin

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-sex-offenders-detection-change-name-fsctkkmjt

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
duc748 · 03/10/2023 11:46

I don't trust Labour even slightly on this, either. It'll be like trying to turn an oil-tanker.

DiabolicalFinial · 03/10/2023 11:47

I did wonder why the fly-by visits were occurring, and were particularly narky regarding high profile women’s rights supporters/activists…

☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️

Chersfrozenface · 03/10/2023 12:26

There's an easy solution.

Everyone should have a National Insurance number from registration of birth, which they cannot change and which has to be used in dealings with every government department, local and national.

Including police, the criminal justice system, DBS, everywhere

And it needs to be linked to every name used throughout the individual's life.

(And Liberty can do one )

YukoandHiro · 03/10/2023 12:29

Pixiedust1234 · 03/10/2023 01:53

Thank you @UtopiaPlanitia

Between January 2019 and June 2022, there were almost 12,000 prosecutions against people on the sex offence register who failed to alert authorities about a change in their personal information.
Holy fcuk!! 😱

Most of that will be address/phone number. Not gender status. Not excusing it, but for context.

SpiderMaam · 03/10/2023 12:34

Sarah Champion’s speech to parliament (2nd March 2023)

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-03-02/debates/ED5E97A9-95A3-47F2-9220-83EAC62AA856/ChangeOfNameByRegisteredSexOffenders

(various figures included)

SidewaysOtter · 03/10/2023 15:47

duc748 · 03/10/2023 11:46

I don't trust Labour even slightly on this, either. It'll be like trying to turn an oil-tanker.

And an oil tanker that only wants to look like it’s changing direction, at that.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2024 11:31

Rather than starting a new thread <tidy> I was looking for a recent-ish one to add to and found one of mine <tidier 😃>. Anyway

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/convicted-paedophile-able-to-work-with-children-after-changing-name-v3n2jk557

https://archive.ph/1rGtT avoid paywall link

This never happens, bad men would never...etc.

This is in Scotland.

Does anyone know what happened to the proposal that originally inspired this thread? I don't recall hearing anything about it recently.

Convicted paedophile able to work with children after changing name

Marc Sherland resigned as president of the Robert Burns World Federation after his history of abuse came to light

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/convicted-paedophile-able-to-work-with-children-after-changing-name-v3n2jk557

OP posts:
catduckgoose · 26/02/2024 11:38

Chersfrozenface · 03/10/2023 12:26

There's an easy solution.

Everyone should have a National Insurance number from registration of birth, which they cannot change and which has to be used in dealings with every government department, local and national.

Including police, the criminal justice system, DBS, everywhere

And it needs to be linked to every name used throughout the individual's life.

(And Liberty can do one )

I think Labour had the right idea when they were trying to introduce a national identity card. If they'd succeeded then this legislation would likely be unnecessary as DBS checks and the like would be based on identity number instead of name.

catduckgoose · 26/02/2024 11:40

Do we know of any cases where a Gender Recognition Panel has approved an application from a known sex offender?

AliceA2021 · 26/02/2024 11:43

dimorphism · 03/10/2023 09:32

It is astounding this was EVER allowed. It seems a basic safeguarding measure to not allow name / pretend sex change for convicted sex offenders.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but to some protecting girls and women has never been a priority.

Chersfrozenface · 26/02/2024 11:45

catduckgoose · 26/02/2024 11:40

Do we know of any cases where a Gender Recognition Panel has approved an application from a known sex offender?

Do Gender Recognition Panels undertake an enhanced DBS check?

And under Labours' plans to give out GRCs on the say-so of one doctor, would the process include an enhanced DBS check?

IncompleteSenten · 26/02/2024 11:46

Nobody should be allowed to change any part of their identity when doing so would hide a criminal offence. (Except if a change of identity is part of a deal eg part of a drug gang and gets protection in exchange for testifying)
There should be no exceptions to this, including genuine gender dysphoria or attempting to abuse accomodations for people with gender dysphoria.

Froodwithatowel · 26/02/2024 11:49

So thousands of people will take advantage of a loophole to criminally and sexually offend and not be angelically good chaps above such things?

Who'd a thunk? 🙄

Yes, I think the tide's turned on the absolute embracing of good will and trust when it comes to anything related to gender. Sadly there's a body count behind that sentimental naivety, mostly of females, but isn't there always? It needs to be clear, (and deaf to footstamping and wailing) that some things, like name changes and legal fiction documentation, are special privileges, not unconditional entitlements, and those privileges come with following basic standards, like keeping within the law and not abusing others.

Chersfrozenface · 26/02/2024 11:49

Anyway, back to ID numbers...

So many countries have an ID number system. There's a whole Wikipedia page on the subject. These countries include all of Scandinavia, fof instance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number

Lumiodes · 26/02/2024 11:52

I know two men who were convicted of raping underage girls, who have now changed their names to hide their crimes. A mutual acquaintance said “Liam is finding it difficult to get jobs because whenever an employer googles him the news articles about his arrest and sentencing come up, so he’s changed his name to Alex”. This has nothing to do with gender, it’s about people changing their names to hide their crimes.

Froodwithatowel · 26/02/2024 11:53

It is useful, though painful, to watch the results of this vast and stupid experiment roll in.

Men given free access to women's hospital wards to support their identity..... ended in women being raped.

Men given access to women's prisons..... oh yes, more women assaulted, terrorised, coerced and raped.

Men given access to women's sports...... yeah, men holding increasing numbers of women's records, bouncing them out of places for women and injuring women.

And now men permitted to change their name and sex to their preferred fiction? 12,000 used it to escape previous convictions.

If men want to know why the gates are being closed, they need to go and talk to other men and deal with their behaviours as a sex class. Not wail at women and everyone else that they should just suck it up, because boundaries and having to care about other people's equality is just meeeean and limits self expression. And offending opportunities.

This political lobby will have played a large part in the eventual, inevitable outcome of all this - biometric ID.

SpiderMaam · 26/02/2024 12:08

catduckgoose · 26/02/2024 11:40

Do we know of any cases where a Gender Recognition Panel has approved an application from a known sex offender?

Yes, that Karen person who was convicted of attempted rape (not Karen White, the one before him), having previously served a term for Manslaughter.

This article calls him Karen Lawson (aka Mark John Jones) but I think he’s best known as Karen Jones

2012 article:
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/transexual-rapist-jailed-6971617.html

Legal Feminist commentary 2023:
https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2023/02/10/sensible-people-and-the-law-going-bonkers/

relevant extract:

Mark (aka Karen) Jones

in 2009, Mark Jones, a male prisoner who had been granted a GRC but had not yet had genital surgery, brought judicial review proceedings challenging the prison service’s refusal to move him to a women’s prison. NHS policy at the time was to make “living as a woman” for two years a pre-requisite to surgery, and did not recognise “living as a woman” in a men’s prison as sufficient.
Jones’s convictions were for the manslaughter of his boyfriend, and for a terrifying attempted rape of a female stranger. He was evidently difficult to manage in prison. A report from his own expert supported the proposal to transfer him to the female estate on the basis of an expectation of a deterioration in his behaviour if his wishes were thwarted:
[The claimant] needs to control the threatening external world by imposing [his] own order and when this is not possible [he] resorts to stronger measures which incorporate narcissistic, compulsive, aggressive, violent and sadistic elements . . .

. . . As [the claimant’s] desperation to control [his] environment mounts, [he] experiences a heightening degree of narcissism or self-concern. [H]e is increasingly liable to experience aggressive and destructive impulses.
[emphasis supplied]
Argument in the case ( B v Secretary of State for Justice [2009] EWHC 2220 (Admin)) focused on Jones’s article 8 rights, and the cost to the prison service of the (possibly extended) period of segregation in a women’s prison which was thought likely to be necessary before he could be allowed to “mix with and form friendships with other women [sic] as she [sic] would choose to do”.
The closest the court’s reasoning, or any material referred to in the judgment, came to considering the human rights of the women who were to be locked up with a violent, narcissistic and sadistic rapist is to be found in three short passages from the evidence. Mr Spurr, the Chief Operating Officer of the National Offender Management Service referred at paragraph 56 of his statement to a number of factors he said were relevant to the decision, including “concerns over how the female population would react to her [sic] generally, and also specifically if they became aware of her [sic] index offence”.
At paragraph 64, Mr Spurr said:
I particularly note that the index offence of attempted rape did not involve the ability to sustain an erection, and appears to have been more inspired by feelings of frustration and jealousy than sexual desire. While the main issue that has been addressed in terms of risk is the Claimant’s risk to herself [sic], NOMS must also bear in mind the risk she [sic] poses to other prisoners.
Dr Barrett dealt dismissively with any unhappiness that female prisoners might feel about the company they were to be required to keep:
I would say that I suspect that caution will probably lead to her [sic] being placed on a segregation unit in the first instance and that in no very great time (perhaps a couple of months) it will become clear that she [sic] is so widely accepted as female in that unit that location in the main prison will follow. I think that such acceptance will pretty generally apply in the main prison, also, although there will probably always be a small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict. If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her [sic] able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world.
The interests of the female prisoners who were to be locked up with Jones were not represented, and there was no discussion in court of the possibility that they might be human beings with agency and relevant rights of their own.
The court was persuaded. The judge held that holding Jones in a men’s prison interfered with his personal autonomy as protected by article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights in a manner going beyond what imprisonment was intended to do, and that the prison service had failed to provide sufficient justification for the interference. He was accordingly transferred to a women’s prison to serve the remainder of his sentence.
There were only two parties present or represented in court: Jones himself, and the Secretary of State for Justice. The interests of the female prisoners who were to be locked up with Jones were not represented by any interested party or intervener, and there was no discussion in court of the possibility that they might be human beings with agency and relevant rights of their own.

end quote.

The Gender Recognition Panel do not refuse on the basis of criminal convictions so no reason to do a DBS check!

Transexual rapist jailed

A transsexual who tried to rape a woman in a terrifying attack just days after being released from a young offenders' institution was today jailed for life.

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/transexual-rapist-jailed-6971617.html

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/02/2024 12:14

And Martin Ponting/Jessica Winfield while serving his sentence for double child rape

x.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1760963522132074709?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/02/2024 12:17

2018 article:

At one point the office of Lord Patel were going to meet with a Mumsnetter who complained about this, and @Datun was going to accompany her. However they never did manage to fix the date.

SignoraVolpe · 26/02/2024 12:24

A branding iron on their forehead would solve identity change problems.
Because paedophiles never reform imo.

And I don’t believe in capital punishment but paedophiles ruin lives.
I was watching Alan Davies talking about his mother dying when he was six and his father started sexually abusing him from eight.
It took him years to tell anyone.

Fenlandia · 26/02/2024 15:09

IcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2024 11:31

Rather than starting a new thread <tidy> I was looking for a recent-ish one to add to and found one of mine <tidier 😃>. Anyway

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/convicted-paedophile-able-to-work-with-children-after-changing-name-v3n2jk557

https://archive.ph/1rGtT avoid paywall link

This never happens, bad men would never...etc.

This is in Scotland.

Does anyone know what happened to the proposal that originally inspired this thread? I don't recall hearing anything about it recently.

This quote from that article:

"Sherland, who lives in Erskine, admitted to the Sunday Mail that he should not have been working with children.

But he claimed he changed his name due to his work as an author, not his conviction. He said: “As a writer, I realised my given name was relatively common and changing it to a name that was not relatively common was a good idea.”

When asked if he accepted working with children would be a concern to parents he replied: “I thought the distance in time was so great and the change in my personality was so great that it wasn’t such an issue.”

Basically, he self-IDed as 'safe to work with kids'!

songaboutjam · 26/02/2024 21:43

But he claimed he changed his name due to his work as an author, not his conviction. He said: “As a writer, I realised my given name was relatively common and changing it to a name that was not relatively common was a good idea.”

What a load of old guff. Plenty of authors go by pen names without needing to change their own via deed poll.

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