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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lib-Dem Voice - 'debunking the gender critical myth'

87 replies

ArabellaScott · 01/10/2023 22:11

https://www.libdemvoice.org/debunking-the-gender-critical-myth-74015.html

'Medical science is wonderful and has helped us overcome constraints of biology.'
...

'Every morning I wake up and take 5mg of estradiol valerate, and every night before I go to bed, I take 200mg of progesterone. As a result, more of my body is female than male,'

Chris Northwood (she/her) is a councillor in Manchester, deputy group leader of the Manchester Liberal Democrats and member of Federal Council.

Debunking the “gender critical” myth

“Sex is binary and immutable” is the great myth that underpins “gender critical” ideology. At first glance, it might appear to be plausible, but anything beyond a cursory inspection shows it to be shallow and incorrect. Biology is a complex system, and...

https://www.libdemvoice.org/debunking-the-gender-critical-myth-74015.html

OP posts:
HagoftheNorth · 02/10/2023 10:36

And to reply to the article directly; Chris what is most damaging and most offensive is to deliberately misquote medical, scientific and legal experts to support your argument. If your argument is sound, you should not need to resort to this kind of deception. Can’t access Twitter, but I really hope this is the kind of push-back Chris is getting

Theeyeballsinthesky · 02/10/2023 10:50

Zodfa · 02/10/2023 09:17

One wonders where this "more female than male" person falls on spectrums like height, hand size, waist:hip ratio, shoulder width, voice pitch etc etc.

I posted a photo of Chris up the thread

stealtheatingtunnocks · 02/10/2023 11:18

I can’t take them seriously. Them the party not blue haired chris who is incoherent and so should not be taken seriously.

I can’t take any party seriously until they say something sensible about sex.

it’s what that Australian woman from giggle said - if you say women can have penises i
wont believe anything else you say. I’ll be misquoting but you get the gist.

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2023 11:32

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65623401
Manchester's first trans councillor says judge me on my work

WEEEELLLLL. If that blog is an example of your work, I'd say you lack empathy, have no understanding of law, have very poor attention to detail and your level of ability to understand science is an utter fail.

From 2021
https://cnorthwood.medium.com/an-open-letter-to-the-bbc-on-trans-lives-ca6fd50f7ef4
We the undersigned are concerned that the BBC is in breach of its public purposes in recent reporting and coverage of issues affecting the LGBT, and in particular the trans community.

Nope. The BBC has a duty to be impartial. This means reporting on both sides of an argument. Not just reporting what you want to hear.

The letter continues with more rampant ballcocks:
Similarly, there have been many examples where BBC shows have permitted misinformation by anti-trans campaigners on self-identification within the context of Gender Recognition Act reform to pass unchallenged which may mislead an uninformed audience member. Many anti-trans campaigners conflate the issue of allowing trans women into women’s only prisons or shelters (permitted under the Equality Act of 2010), with the matter of updating birth certificates, which self-identification under GRA reform concerns itself with, and when the BBC allows misinformation to occur on its platform, it is failing on the core Reithian principles of informing and educating.

Errrr. About that.

We are further concerned that on this issue the BBC is also in breach of the fourth public purpose, which seeks to “accurately and authentically represent and portray the lives of the people of the United Kingdom today”. Although there have been several documentaries which centre the experience of trans people, when it comes to more general coverage, there has been a lack of accuracy and authenticity in the representation of the lives of trans people. For example, much coverage of transgender issues has focussed on relative niche areas such as fairness in elite sports, philosophical debates of the definition of the word “woman”, or those who detransition. However, most surveys of the trans community show that the biggest issues affecting that community are access to healthcare, mental health support and secure housing. Similarly, within the active discussion around that of trans youth, a disproportionate amount of time is spent on talking about those who detransition as a result of misdiagnosis, without appropriately setting the context of how many young lives have been saved through appropriate early intervention. By focussing much of the debate around trans issues through the lens of the anti-trans campaigners arguments, rather than the authentic lives of trans people, the BBC is failing in its public purposes.

'Niche issues'. Niche for whom? I think Women's Rights are pretty important. But to Chris they are 'niche'.

Is it niche, or 'anti-trans' if you have a full on medical scandal like the Tavistock too. How is reporting on a medical scandal failing to adhere to the BBC's public purposes? Just know, wondering.

Lets have bit of sunlight on Chris and just how fucked up the LDs are in terms of the lack of quality candidates they have (they regularly send out begging emails asking people to stand cos they can't get enough people). Lets talk about how the LD have had a problem with women generally (they have the worst gender equality in candidates of all the parties by some margin). Lets talk about how they threw Natalie Bird under the bus.

They've got a massive issue internally. Everyone needs to see how bad it is.

Its just Nimbys and TransActivists these days. The party have NOTHING else to say.

Genuinely. I find it utterly depressing. They aren't even a protest option anymore.

ArabellaScott · 02/10/2023 11:57

They've got a massive issue internally. Everyone needs to see how bad it is.

Its just Nimbys and TransActivists these days. The party have NOTHING else to say.

Genuinely. I find it utterly depressing. They aren't even a protest option anymore.

Yes, this seems hugely unhealthy for a democracy that often suffers because of a two-party system.

OP posts:
Fenlandia · 02/10/2023 13:01

"most surveys of the trans community show that the biggest issues affecting that community are access to healthcare, mental health support and secure housing"

...and nobody else has to worry about this?

As usual, there's also an undertone of 'why won't women shut up about their pet peeves when there's other issues in the world.'

MargotBamborough · 02/10/2023 13:10

Fenlandia · 02/10/2023 13:01

"most surveys of the trans community show that the biggest issues affecting that community are access to healthcare, mental health support and secure housing"

...and nobody else has to worry about this?

As usual, there's also an undertone of 'why won't women shut up about their pet peeves when there's other issues in the world.'

Yes, an awful lot of what is deemed "transphobia" is simply "not getting special treatment".

Healthcare is a great example. People complaining about waiting over a year to see a gender clinic or start hormones... yes, and? How long do you think it takes to get seen for recurrent miscarriage? Or to get a diagnosis of endometriosis? Or a hip replacement? Isn't this just the reality of NHS waiting times? I think it's actually more likely that people with health problems which are potentially life threatening, or which really are time critical, such as anything to do with infertility, are waiting just as long if not longer.

And then just in the general sense, when trans people complain about society not respecting their feelings, their identities, their safety, their dignity...

Well do you want to be a woman or don't you? Because society doesn't respect women's feelings, identities, safety or dignity, and you most certainly don't. So I would suggest that you don't actually want to be treated like women at all, do you? You want to be treated better than women, you ARE treated better than women, and yet you are still complaining about your treatment and saying it is evidence of transphobia. If you think people not actually believing you are literally a woman is transphobic, well unfortunately you're just going to have to learn to cope with that.

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2023 13:23

MargotBamborough · 02/10/2023 13:10

Yes, an awful lot of what is deemed "transphobia" is simply "not getting special treatment".

Healthcare is a great example. People complaining about waiting over a year to see a gender clinic or start hormones... yes, and? How long do you think it takes to get seen for recurrent miscarriage? Or to get a diagnosis of endometriosis? Or a hip replacement? Isn't this just the reality of NHS waiting times? I think it's actually more likely that people with health problems which are potentially life threatening, or which really are time critical, such as anything to do with infertility, are waiting just as long if not longer.

And then just in the general sense, when trans people complain about society not respecting their feelings, their identities, their safety, their dignity...

Well do you want to be a woman or don't you? Because society doesn't respect women's feelings, identities, safety or dignity, and you most certainly don't. So I would suggest that you don't actually want to be treated like women at all, do you? You want to be treated better than women, you ARE treated better than women, and yet you are still complaining about your treatment and saying it is evidence of transphobia. If you think people not actually believing you are literally a woman is transphobic, well unfortunately you're just going to have to learn to cope with that.

Of the medical scandals in the last 10 - 20 years, how many have affected a majority of women/girls, how many have affected a majority of men and how many have affected both equally.

We've had exactly HOW MANY maternity scandals? The Tavistock affects more girls than boys. The mesh scandal? Breast cancer screening and surgery scandals?

I think the contaminated blood scandal which affected a lot of haemophiliacs (who are mainly male) is the only one I can think of which affects blokes more than women.

Worse still we have issues with women who can't get HRT and are phobed off for years by doctors but self identify as trans and its easy. Women can't get sterilised as 'they might change their minds' - these can be adult women in their thirties with other health conditions - but if they were a teen declaring themselves trans crack on! Its INSANE.

There's so many reports and studies that show that women do not have equal quality health care - and this isn't being pushed by someone who identifies as trans as part of them being a woman. Oh no. BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY AREN'T A WOMAN. Its just me, me, me or trans every other word.

Cancelledcurio · 02/10/2023 14:25

@RedToothBrush completely ableist and arrogant reply.
That person is deluded and is being indulged by a political party . Maybe because Chris is male ?
"An inability to put yourself in the shoes of women and be empathetic to the impact of gender identity on women"

Wow, so autistic people can have empathy. Just wow . Such ignorance.

Cancelledcurio · 02/10/2023 14:25
  • can't
WickedSerious · 02/10/2023 14:54

LunaNorth · 01/10/2023 22:41

By that reckoning, I must be more cocoa than human.

I'm 90% gin.

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2023 14:57

Cancelledcurio · 02/10/2023 14:25

@RedToothBrush completely ableist and arrogant reply.
That person is deluded and is being indulged by a political party . Maybe because Chris is male ?
"An inability to put yourself in the shoes of women and be empathetic to the impact of gender identity on women"

Wow, so autistic people can have empathy. Just wow . Such ignorance.

Carry on.... you already decided I'm prejudice.

It's relevant. Whether you like or not.

GrimDamnFanjo · 03/10/2023 00:40

It's bizarre as one of the things the LDs used to be proud of was embracing free speech, being able to voice your opinions.
Not so much anymore...

Pixiedust1234 · 03/10/2023 01:49

The LibDems haven't been a decent party since the 2010 fiasco. The local LibDem councillors have been okay in my area but they didn't really follow party lines. They seemed more concerned with cycle lanes and dog bins rather than stopping the other parties from snaffling the gravy train or even actually doing any work. I think they are the new Monster Loony party. Shame really.

WarriorN · 03/10/2023 06:36

So a woman who is on hormone blocking medication for cancer isn't a woman? 🤔

ArabellaScott · 03/10/2023 07:08

Pixiedust1234 · 03/10/2023 01:49

The LibDems haven't been a decent party since the 2010 fiasco. The local LibDem councillors have been okay in my area but they didn't really follow party lines. They seemed more concerned with cycle lanes and dog bins rather than stopping the other parties from snaffling the gravy train or even actually doing any work. I think they are the new Monster Loony party. Shame really.

it's interesting to think how the parties have all shifted. Labour to the right economically, Tories to the left socially, Libdems to Cloud Cuckoo Land.

I wonder how much this reflects the electorate? More and more socially liberal but fiscally right ... is this as we become more and more individualised, insular?

OP posts:
Froodwithatowel · 03/10/2023 08:07

If you think people not actually believing you are literally a woman is transphobic, well unfortunately you're just going to have to learn to cope with that.

That is the crux of it.

Musomama1 · 03/10/2023 09:20

I'm going to start a scrapbook to show these articles to my doorstepping Lib Dem councillors.

I'd never vote Lib Dem again, ever. We were sold out with tuition fees back in the day. Now women's rights will be sold out.

Liberal means far left now doesn't it which to me is same toxicity as far right.

ArabellaScott · 03/10/2023 09:32

Actually a series of leaflets to hand to each rep of respective political parties would be really useful. With pull quotes and historical timeline of all the shitty things they've (all) done.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 03/10/2023 09:33

The SNP version may require a rather hefty booklet, rather than a leaflet, right enough.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 03/10/2023 09:34

ArabellaScott · 03/10/2023 09:32

Actually a series of leaflets to hand to each rep of respective political parties would be really useful. With pull quotes and historical timeline of all the shitty things they've (all) done.

I'd just print these off, plus the newer ones such as the one of Stella Creasy, and show them to any Labour campaigner who showed up on my doorstep.

Read out David Lammy's quote and ask why any woman in her right mind should vote for that.

Lib-Dem Voice - 'debunking the gender critical myth'
ArabellaScott · 03/10/2023 09:35

Yes, absolutely! But we could use them for each party.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 03/10/2023 09:42

You'd have to make your own for other parties unfortunately. Unless some helpful person has already done the job for the Lib Dems/Greens/Plaid/SNP.

literalviolence · 04/10/2023 09:27

ArabellaScott · 01/10/2023 23:08

😔

Yes but the question is - are they more bat than human?

literalviolence · 04/10/2023 09:28

WarriorN · 03/10/2023 06:36

So a woman who is on hormone blocking medication for cancer isn't a woman? 🤔

I've just re-started HRT. I guess I am more of a woman now than I was a couple of weeks ago?