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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liberal Democrat Motion

41 replies

Hurrydash · 24/09/2023 00:21

"Conference notes that... menstruation is not just a women's issue, and also affects some trans and non-binary people."

This motion was passed by a big majority of Lib Dems.

Will anyone be voting for them at the next GE?

If so please justify.

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TedWilson · 24/09/2023 00:23

Oh dear god.

No.

IcakethereforeIam · 24/09/2023 00:28

At times like this I'm always reminded that 'motion' is a synonym, a very apposite one. 'Passed a motion' even more so. 😡

Whatsnewpussyhat · 24/09/2023 00:29

So because a tiny % of women want to pretend they are not women, everyone else has to pretend that menstruation isn't just a women's issue.

Men don't have periods and non binary is made up nonsense.

Kendodd · 24/09/2023 00:32

Actually I quite like it.
Biological women can't escape our biology regardless of how we dress and present ourselves. I think this recognises that. Although I haven't read the actual wording.

MorvernBlack · 24/09/2023 00:38

I don't mind "women, transmen and NB". It's the erasure of the word woman or the "people who menstruate" that is problematic. Also inclusion of transwomen - just no.

Brainworm · 24/09/2023 09:48

There is a category of the human race that menstruates, there are huge within category differences within this group, but the commonality is the role their bodies play in sexual reproduction or the potential for it.

Presumably, in order to be inclusive, we should have two words to differentiate the two categories of humans that pertain to sexual reproduction but don't pertain to all of the other within group differences. We should then use these words when reproductive related issues are pertinent.

That would make things simpler. Hmmmm, if only we could find two words that everyone could understand?!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/09/2023 09:56

No, I won't be voting for the LibDems or the Greens or the WEP, and probably not for Labour either. All academic here as my Labour MP has one of the safest seats in the country, so my vote is worth nothing. I won't vote Tory, no matter what. I am rather hoping that a canvasser will knock so I can explain my views.

I have a short but apparently unattainable wishlist: I want my elected representatives to be intelligent, sensible, not credulous, principled, competent, kind and honest. I want them to expect good quality evidence to support anything they're being asked to support, and I want them to ask difficult questions. I want them to have enough backbone and humility to stand up and say when something doesn't make sense and to ask for it to be explained in simple terms.

Yes, I also want the moon on a stick. Hmm

Justme56 · 24/09/2023 10:04

’some non-binary people’ says it all. They know exactly which ones.

MargotBamborough · 24/09/2023 10:09

No, I will not be voting for the Lib Dems ever again.

In fact I would love it if they could disband, go back to their student politics because that's their level, and clear space for a centrist party made of actual grown ups who want to fix the economy and the environment to take their place.

Crouton19 · 24/09/2023 10:15

Justme56 · 24/09/2023 10:04

’some non-binary people’ says it all. They know exactly which ones.

Exactly. One to raise with them on the doorstep!

OldCrone · 24/09/2023 10:19

"Conference notes that... menstruation is not just a women's issue, and also affects some trans and non-binary people."

What's the difference between a 'trans or non-binary person who menstruates' and a woman?

LemonRedwood · 24/09/2023 10:19

No, never again in a general election.

I voted for Lib Dem in my local council elections a few months ago because the candidate knocked on my door, I challenged her about the lib dem stance that TWAW and she revealed herself to be against gender ideology. She's also been a very good local councillor for years so I'd like to keep her.

But higher up in the party there is no such sense. They are actively damaging women and girls with their beliefs that men can be women just because they say so.

I'm now politically homeless. Can't vote LD or Green, can't vote Labour because Starmer is untrustworthy on the issue. Which leaves Conservative - they appear to know what a woman is but I'm not sure I could stomach voting that way.

Sad
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 24/09/2023 10:25

IcakethereforeIam · 24/09/2023 00:28

At times like this I'm always reminded that 'motion' is a synonym, a very apposite one. 'Passed a motion' even more so. 😡

Funnily enough I read the headline and thought, 'Lib Dems, eh? that'll be motion as in turd.'

Nope, won't be voting LD. I have a LD council and the thought of them is very good aversion therapy if I ever entertained the idea.

GrumpyPanda · 24/09/2023 10:32

MorvernBlack · 24/09/2023 00:38

I don't mind "women, transmen and NB". It's the erasure of the word woman or the "people who menstruate" that is problematic. Also inclusion of transwomen - just no.

I do very much mind that because it turns "woman" into a gender identity (which also opens a further can of worms as that would then include TW - so you'd have to add the cis nonsense.) Just put "women", combined with a footnoted disclaimer that the word is used as a sex term and includes people such as... who identify otherwise.

PorcelinaV · 24/09/2023 10:36

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12541309/Now-ordinary-women-like-CANCELLED-trans-lobby-came-celebrities-like-JK-Rowling-wasnt-say-frontline-gender-debate-war.html

The campaign to cancel Natalie Bird began with an item of clothing.

She was standing in the sandwich queue when a woman marched over asking ‘Why are you wearing that T-shirt?’

The T-shirt in question had the words ‘Woman: Adult Human Female’ emblazoned across it. To some, an indisputable fact. To others, a red rag to a bull. Either way, it proved a provocative choice for a Liberal Democrat gathering.

‘I told the woman I was wearing it because I wanted debate,’ says Natalie, 45.

‘She asked me if I was an approved party candidate and I said yes, and she said: “Well, we’ll see about that.” ’

Days later, in December 2018, Natalie received a letter telling her she was banned from standing as an MP or holding party office for ten years.

The reason? Because she had ‘intentionally and deliberately sought to provoke a negative reaction... by way of wearing a piece of clothing that would be offensive to some members of the party.’

‘I was stunned,’ says Natalie. ‘All I want is some discussion about sex-based rights. As the survivor of an abusive relationship, I know how crucial it is for women to be able to access refuges and safe spaces which no men can access. This is a fundamental human right.’

Natalie, who says the party’s focus ‘has moved from women’s equality to trans rights’, believes it is pushing more and more women out of politics.

‘For speaking out, I’ve been bullied, harassed, hounded... and received twice the punishment [with the ten-year ban] that people receive for electoral fraud,’ she says.

Meet the ordinary women who are being CANCELLED by the trans lobby

A would-be MP, an artist and a singer are among the ordinary women who have been cancelled. Speaking to JILL FOSTER, they explain how they have been bullied, harassed and punished.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12541309/Now-ordinary-women-like-CANCELLED-trans-lobby-came-celebrities-like-JK-Rowling-wasnt-say-frontline-gender-debate-war.html

ApocalipstickNow · 24/09/2023 10:38

“Menstruation is a women’s issue- however they identify. Some trans men and non binary people are affected by it.”

I know tm and nbs will object that they aren’t actually women but it would be helpful to accept personal identity and reality sometimes diverge.

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 10:38

Alert - Everyone planning to doorstep canvassers in the election plans are developing for the official mass questioning to find out which candidates know women exist. You are not alone.

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4904355-mps-who-believe-women-have-a-penis-will-be-named-and-shamed-ahead-of-general-election

Don't be despairing about the next election. Instead help make it the biggest mass peaking event the world has ever seen. Remember the SNP are going to lose a lot of votes because they hate women. They will try to pretend it isn't because of that so will Labour but we all know the truth.

The parties all of them think women are too weak to organise to expose their sexist crap. Time to prove them wrong.

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election | Mumsnet

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions: *An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4904355-mps-who-believe-women-have-a-penis-will-be-named-and-shamed-ahead-of-general-election

RealityFan · 24/09/2023 10:43

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

FantasticElasticBand · 24/09/2023 10:46

Sarah Dyke (LibDem) is now my MP <sigh>

& when the flunkies came around canvassing, they wouldn’t answer my very simple question ie “should men be in women’s prisons”.

I’m a single issue voter. Answer my question - you might get my vote.
Obfuscate & I’ll ask you very nicely to fuck off my front porch. I’ve heard enough.

PermanentTemporary · 24/09/2023 10:53

Yeah I'm voting for them. My MP is a bit crazy, especially on this issue, but has genuinely tried to represent the views of her constituents even when they don't fit hers. I just want this government out.

As a motion, it's a symptom of the constant internal LD battle about this. The party is split with constant tug of war, activists trying to deselect GC candidates, WhatsApp groups pinging 24/7. I therefore think as a motion it's reasonably mild, however INSANE it might seem to anyone pre-2015 that a political party would have a discussion of this type.

ArabeIIaScott · 24/09/2023 14:39

MargotBamborough · 24/09/2023 10:09

No, I will not be voting for the Lib Dems ever again.

In fact I would love it if they could disband, go back to their student politics because that's their level, and clear space for a centrist party made of actual grown ups who want to fix the economy and the environment to take their place.

Recent article on centrism.

https://archive.ph/mamnA

(In which the author works hard to avoid grasping the main reason 'centrism' has failed - that it has been and remains complacent and comfortable in its position as morally Right and Good, and fails to listen and learn from those on either the right or the left - and continues to maintain the arrogance, ignorance, and apathy that characterises so much of what I see/read from the left.)

He's gone so far as recognising that it's not working, but falls at the last hurdle of asking people why they don't want to vote for centrist parties and goes instead for the favourite method of presuming motive and suggests doubling down on previous failing tactics. Fail more, fail harder, I guess.

Froodwithatowel · 24/09/2023 14:55

Yeah, reality doesn't bend to linguistic vanities.

Being able to cope with reality is kind of a fundamental qualification for being competent.

For anything. Never mind running a country.

Apparently we get the government we deserve. Wtf did we do?!

RealityFan · 24/09/2023 14:57

I see this all quite negatively. The Conservatives have lost any semblance of deserving to be in power, zero principles, maximum profligacy. Last days of Rome, without any decent debauchery to even start to compensate. No ability even to conserve (y'know, like in their name), from the countryside to women's rights.

Labour are the "centrist" alternative, the so called sober alternative, the steady ship. But it's not centrist to fall to cults like TRA and to effectively shut down debate. All they have to offer is moderately more sobriety, moderately less scandal and incompetence. Anyone expecting Labour to do anything interesting, don't hold your breath.

There are no dynamic alternatives, certainly noone other than the SDP fighting for women's rights, but they'll be immaterial in the final analysis.

We're now voting for technocratic competence in 2024, Sunak and his pledges versus Starmer's "I'm not Sunak or the last 14 years".

PaterPower · 24/09/2023 18:00

My current MP (Tory) is stepping down at the next election as he clearly sees which way the wind’s about to blow.

Had he stayed on, however, I wouldn’t have been able to lend him my vote because he’s full on TWAW and apparently proud of it. Which would have left me in the invidious position of spoiling my ballot - the first time I’d have done that in a GE.

I don’t know what his replacement believes yet (perhaps he or she is also into the magical) but I can’t bring myself to vote Green, Lib or Lab. Perhaps the screaming loomies will field a candidate, if they don’t feel that their USP has been hijacked.

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