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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Hadley Freeman Article About Graham LInehan

349 replies

Igneococcus · 23/09/2023 18:33

Not actually read it yet but here for anybody who'd like to read:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f23ce7c-596a-11ee-a62b-d21c2c8f0b9b?shareToken=3adab3e87e06a1d37788d0b2482f02b6

Graham Linehan: comedy genius whose trans views cost him everything

It began with a message. It was the summer of 2018, I’d been writing about gender ideology for four years and I noticed on my phone that I had received a messag

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f23ce7c-596a-11ee-a62b-d21c2c8f0b9b?shareToken=3adab3e87e06a1d37788d0b2482f02b6

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UtopiaPlanitia · 23/09/2023 18:38

Thanks for the share token OP 😊

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NecessaryScene · 23/09/2023 18:46

Thank you - a nice piece. I think Graham is truly on redemptive path now. I cried a little just on seeing his book cover, as it seemed to symbolise that redemption somehow.

It feels like there is a momentum with more and more people stepping forward and taking the opportunity to state their support, and that he was and is right. I can see that publicly, and he says he's been getting that privately too.

But as Hadley puts it in the piece - "he had the misfortune of being right too early".

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allaroundthelamplight · 23/09/2023 18:47

She's summed up everything I feel about Glinner, I also parted ways with him around the same time. I will definitely read his book and have a lot of compassion for him.

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SunnieShine · 23/09/2023 18:50

There are few men I truly admire. Graham Linehan is one of them.

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JoodyBlue · 23/09/2023 18:55

I feel protective of and empathetic towards Glinner in the same way I do toward Kellie Jay. Both criticised for not being "measured" enough or losing themselves. Held to a far higher standard than those arguing up is down. This annoys me intensely. Why should they not speak clearly. And so, although on the whole this article is supportive of Glinner I really dislike it's final paragraph. It seems to me to be lacking sensitivity.

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HermioneWeasley · 23/09/2023 18:56

He’s a good man - I can’t think of another bloke who’s put everything on the line to defend women and children when he could easily have walked away. And so called feminists (I’m looking at you WEP, Fawcett, Sandi Toksvig, Caitlin Moran) haven’t said a word, not even when rapists have been put in women’s prisons.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 23/09/2023 19:27

JoodyBlue · 23/09/2023 18:55

I feel protective of and empathetic towards Glinner in the same way I do toward Kellie Jay. Both criticised for not being "measured" enough or losing themselves. Held to a far higher standard than those arguing up is down. This annoys me intensely. Why should they not speak clearly. And so, although on the whole this article is supportive of Glinner I really dislike it's final paragraph. It seems to me to be lacking sensitivity.

Joody, those are my thoughts too, but expressed more aptly than I could manage today 👍😀

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ditalini · 23/09/2023 19:29

The very, very least people could do when they're too cowardly to speak up publically (and I put myself firmly in this group), is not put the boot in by tone policing those who do. IMO.

HF does speak up so she gets a pass, but it still makes me uncomfortable when it's hinted a that any of this shit is his own fault.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/09/2023 19:50

It's interesting how fiercely women & men who prioritise safeguarding children & women's rights are criticised. Especially when you see the torrent of abusive, sexually incontinent, anti social language used by so many trans extremists with no criticism from their "own side".
Like so many others, I'm grateful for Graham's tireless commitment & hope that his book is a great success. He deserves it.

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 19:53

Odd article.

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Appalonia · 23/09/2023 19:55

I remember watching the incredible talk he gave to the HoL about freedom of speech ( it was during Covid times and you could watch it online). He then posted the transcript here on MN. It was compassionate and ncredibly well argued. I've also watched most of the podcasts ' The Mess we're in', and I've learnt so much from them. Not only the guests they had on, pp who I only knew about from Twitter, inc detransitioners, but their astute analysis of the madness we were living in, and being able to laugh about ot.

I hope.one day, he will be vindicated ( as we all be ), common sense will prevail, and we can all go and enjoy ( his undoubtedly hilarious )Father Ted musical!

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rockl0bster · 23/09/2023 20:05

I've seen graham tweet about this as if it's a negative article. I think it's very fair and I share Harley's views. I can't help but wince when I see graham publicly talk about this issue - she described the feeling I had after that news night interview well. And before I get criticised - it's not because he's "bold" and "sweary" and "that's just his style" - he comes across as unhealthily preoccupied and quick to anger. I get it, this whole thing is enraging, and it's not about "optics" or anything like that, his constant tweeting just comes across as a bit crazy. I don't mean to offend or to minimise his principles, and I know I'll get flack for this, but I can't help seeing it that way. I also think it's naive for anyone to think his activism is PURELY motivated by concern for women - I think he is as motivated (if not more so) in wanting to be vindicated and to restore his tarnished reputation. Hadley is right to compare to JKR - she is still respected - whereas graham largely is not. And it is sad.

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ditalini · 23/09/2023 20:49

rockl0bster · 23/09/2023 20:05

I've seen graham tweet about this as if it's a negative article. I think it's very fair and I share Harley's views. I can't help but wince when I see graham publicly talk about this issue - she described the feeling I had after that news night interview well. And before I get criticised - it's not because he's "bold" and "sweary" and "that's just his style" - he comes across as unhealthily preoccupied and quick to anger. I get it, this whole thing is enraging, and it's not about "optics" or anything like that, his constant tweeting just comes across as a bit crazy. I don't mean to offend or to minimise his principles, and I know I'll get flack for this, but I can't help seeing it that way. I also think it's naive for anyone to think his activism is PURELY motivated by concern for women - I think he is as motivated (if not more so) in wanting to be vindicated and to restore his tarnished reputation. Hadley is right to compare to JKR - she is still respected - whereas graham largely is not. And it is sad.

JKR is very, very wealthy. This is what protects her.

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rockl0bster · 23/09/2023 20:52

I genuinely don't think that has anything to do with it. I think it's just that she isn't tweeting about a single issue every day, every night for 5 years. I AGREE with graham, but I can see why anyone would look at his Twitter feed (tagging celebs/old friends constantly) and think he is a bit unhinged (I'm not saying I think that).

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Igneococcus · 23/09/2023 20:54

I hope Graham can see the comments which are very supportive, except for one knobhead.

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nettie434 · 23/09/2023 20:54

Thanks for the share token, Igneococcus. It's a thoughtful article. I appreciate why some people have posted that they don't like the last paragraph. Part of me thinks what none of us realised when this issue emerged was which arguments would resonate most with the general public. I have the impression that Graham was targeted so deliberately and left so isolated that he lacked a critical friend to help him decide what arguments he wanted to use. At the same time, it's easy to forget how the police behaved towards him. It's really hard to retain a light and moderate tone when you are up against a police force acting more like a military dictatorship.

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Igneococcus · 23/09/2023 20:55

Actually, two knobheads

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Woman2023 · 23/09/2023 21:00

The tone of that article is odd, why not just do a strong "he was right" article?

I think plenty of us have found this topic a bit of an obsession, or just me?

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ditalini · 23/09/2023 21:01

rockl0bster · 23/09/2023 20:52

I genuinely don't think that has anything to do with it. I think it's just that she isn't tweeting about a single issue every day, every night for 5 years. I AGREE with graham, but I can see why anyone would look at his Twitter feed (tagging celebs/old friends constantly) and think he is a bit unhinged (I'm not saying I think that).

I think if you spend any time considering the reaction and loss of reputation/income that people who have made the mildest of comments have experienced (Roisin Murphy possibly most recently) you'll see that reasonable behaviour is certainly not rewarded.

And attacks on JKR have been endless and are ongoing - they just don't financially affect her because she has an enormous buffer. I suspect they have personally affected her a lot.

GL knew he was fucked from pretty early on. "Better" behaviour wouldn't have saved him.

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GrandmaMazur · 23/09/2023 21:05

I think it’s a slightly odd article. It’s so hard to be calm and measured about this gender identity nonsense at all times - Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater seem to manage it extraordinarily well but I think they are unusual. And while Graham is sometimes a bit feisty you can see that’s because he cares so much about the people who are getting hurt.

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Boiledbeetle · 23/09/2023 21:06

Are there any other GL articles published today?

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1705648494407499994?s=19

Hadley Freeman Article About Graham LInehan

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Boiledbeetle · 23/09/2023 21:10

.

Hadley Freeman Article About Graham LInehan

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ScribblingPixie · 23/09/2023 21:10

I think it was an article that didn't need to be written.

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AuContraire · 23/09/2023 21:15

She's trying to keep in Helen Lewis' good books.

Unnecessary and unkind. Just no need.

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RethinkingLife · 23/09/2023 21:20

But as Hadley puts it in the piece - "he had the misfortune of being right too early".

It seems that it's an acknowledged issue and, unfortunately, it doesn't always redound to people's credit or reputation.

There's a phenomenon known as 'premature anti-[X]' and two of the best known instances are to have been a premature anti-fascist or a premature anti-Nazi.

‘Premature anti-fascist’ was the name by which the Lincoln Brigade veterans of the Spanish Civil War were known by the US Army in World War Two. This service and knowledge didn't distinguish them for a leadership position, it was counted as demerit on their record.

In John Platts-Mills' autobiography (barrister and post-war Labour MP), he recalls being ‘excluded from any form of normal war service by the stupidities of Bevin’. He noted: ‘An anti-Nazi history, was of no help and to have been prematurely anti-Nazi was a positive hindrance … we were condemned throughout most of the 1930s on the grounds that only Communists were against the Nazis and this hostility carried over into the war years.’

Commenting on (British?) veterans of the Spanish Civil War, Platts-Mills wrote that ‘many lefties who had served in Spain were called up or were accepted when they volunteered. Several more got in only after a tussle with the authorities.’
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4366709-Abigail-Shrier-Marci-Bowers-critical-of-puberty-blockers?watched=1&msgid=111375587

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