Britons more liberal on non traditional families but not trans issues

[Justme56]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-more-liberal-over-abortion-and-single-parents-but-not-trans-9xh0z2b93

I think you’re being generous thinking its an accident of design

I agree. IIRC, the timing of the EHRC "survey" (my earlier post) coincided with no decision but likely a No to self-ID. At the time when the EHRC was thoroughly Stonewalled.

I agree it's a very useful narrative, but it's a bit desperate at this point.

No, I don't believe any legal document should be fictionalised because someone is happier with fiction on it than the truth - that way madness lies.

No, I don't believe that there should be a group of people more special than others, with special freedoms and entitlements under law and higher regard than any other group - that way madness lies.

No, I don't believe that women should be forced to accept subordination and lesser rights to accommodate some men from this special group, including autonomy, privacy and dignity that are basic human rights, or to expect lesser care and respect than that afforded to those men. That way madness lies.

No, I don't believe that safeguarding for children should be adapted based on a special group of people, and the attendant risks handwaved away. That way madness lies.

No, I don't believe reality should be based on the feelings of the most powerful with others forced to comply, instead of the objective perceptions of all. That way madness lies.

These aren't extreme beliefs, you'd have to be beyond uneducated and naive to think enforcing this on a society is going anywhere that ends with sunshine, rainbows and happiness for anyone. The behaviour and reality of this political movement has opened people's eyes to what 'be kind' and 'trans rights' means, and they're seeing through the marketing to the above. They're not likely to be effectively hate crimed and bullied back into compliance at this point, and trying is going to make them steadily angrier and more resistant.

But if that's what it takes to get enough of the populace angry enough to shake Whitehall back to sanity, then whatever.

Its getting more and more important to define terms like prejudice and hate crime. People seem to use them to mean whatever they want to these days.

@Froodwithatowel there’s a comment in one of the summary tables that says ‘it’s not clear what additional rights trans people will gain’ (or words to that effect) which is pretty telling.

it should never be about getting more rights. And never should have been allowed to be about that (but that’s exactly where gender recognition started in uk law).

especially not when these additional rights come at the expense of basic rights everyone used to have - like not being incarcerated with people of the opposite sex.

Aye,who on earth saw this coming????

These are the kinds of "rights" that Brits disagree with. It's not "less liberal" to be saying "hold on, sounds like what you're promoting might actually be the giant loophole sex offenders have been dreaming of? One that will harm women? Um, NO".

This is what's illiberal 👇

www.dailysignal.com/2023/09/21/confirmed-man-who-raped-10-year-old-daughter-housed-female-prison-inmates/

"The Wisconsin Department of Corrections is housing a man who raped his own daughter in a women’s prison because he said he identifies as a woman himself—and the DOC is refusing to offer any kind of insight or explanation on the matter.
Mark Campbell is currently incarcerated in Taycheedah Correctional Institution, a women’s prison in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, inmate records show. He is a registered sex offender convicted of first-degree sexual assault of a child.
That child was his own 10-year-old daughter, court documents allege.
Born in 1971, Campbell is currently 52 years old, weighs 225 pounds, and stands at 5 feet 9 inches, according to the DOC inmate locator.

Under Campbell’s listed “sex,” the Wisconsin DOC states in bold, “FEMALE.” The department has not responded to many requests for comment from The Daily Signal"

No shit Sherlock

Most sane people don't care if little Jimmy was adopted by two daddies or little Jenny is growing up with two mummies at home.

These same - liberal, sane - people do tend to care quite a lot when little Jenny's rough experience of developing breasts at 11 and growing up with ASD leads to her secretly obtaining a binder; a downward spiral of breathing issues and worsening anxiety; and a camhs referral that immediately shunts her on to a hormone prescribing gender clinic because she told the therapist she wasn't a girl.

And these same - liberal, sane - people also care rather a lot about big Jocasta who uses the women's changing rooms at the gym and at work (NHS); who is recorded on the NHS staff database as female; and who has huge influence within both the work women's network and LGBT network groups (despite being a straight male).

“Trans prejudice” = concern about women and girls’ rights to single-sex spaces/ child safeguarding / refusing to be gaslighted or coerced into using language we don’t want to use / ensuring people in authority stick to rules that protect EVERYONE, not just a select few. Amongst other things.

The question on prejudice is a very strange and biased. Why didn’t they have a balanced scale of positive/neutral/negative? A quick skim of the report shows they asked a similar question on prejudice towards people of other races in the past so it seems they were using that question as a model. The race question was last asked in 2019 where 83% said they weren’t prejudiced. The report tries to claim that this shows there is now more prejudice against trans people than there is racial prejudice which is a real leap given that BLM wasn’t a thing in 2019 and they therefore have no clue as to its impact.

The report also admits that moving the survey online in 2020 could have made people more likely to admit to prejudice (as opposed to face to face interviewing). So, although it seems highly likely that there genuinely is more negative feeling than before, especially as other attitudes haven’t changed in this direction, it does muddy the waters.

Meanwhile in Australia, in a large scale survey of 50,000 people done by news.com.au, this was asked.

18. Should transgender athletes be allowed to compete in women’s sport?
No = 82.6%
It depends on the sport = 8.2%
I don’t know = 4.9%
Trans women are women = 4.2%

Only 4.2% of that sample believe that males should absolutely access female sports categories.

Now, I reckon that if those 95.7% of people were asked if they were 'prejudiced' in saying that, a % of them probably would!

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/all-the-questions-in-one-place-from-great-aussie-debate/news-story/ca8ab531382816ec97a4151b9088fab7

Here is the survey. It is just one question popped in there. Well there is a question about pronouns as well.

Do you share your gender pronouns in your email signature or in social media profiles?
No = 48.2%
No, but respect others’ pronouns = 28.2%
No, it is too confusing = 11.2%
Yes, but I don’t care what others do = 5.3%
Yes, and I appreciate when others do = 4.9%
Prefer not to say = 1.7%
My workplace doesn’t allow it = 0.5%

We’re those the actual options?

No, Depends on the Sport, TWAW and don’t know.

Fucking hell.

Not in topic (beyond utterly bonkers survey design) but look at the answers choices here. Some kids are super annoying!

10. Is it ever OK to discipline someone else’s child?
Yes, if the child’s behaviour is endangering themselves or someone else = 54%
You should speak to their parents if there’s an issue = 36.7%
Yes, some kids are super annoying = 9.2%

The comments to the Telegraph article are excellent however. They are not having a bar of it being based on prejudice as opposed to being based on a better understanding and more knowledge of what was being demanded and enacted by TRAs in schools/sports/women’s spaces.

Absolutely

They might as well have asked: are you a bastard

This

Not to mention virtue signalling by companies that pay Stonewall to write their staff guides on "inclusive" language.
Which leads onto the next bullet point:
Cancellation

But what does prejudiced mean, in this context?

I am not prejudiced against Trans people per se. I would not wish to discriminate against them as employees, co-workers, friends etc. I would vehemently defend them against abuse and derogatory language for being trans.

However I am, it seems, transphobic because while I accept and respect trans people as trans people, I think sex is binary and immutable. It’s a commitment to biological fact. How is that ‘not liberal’? Supporting a belief that people can present as they choose is liberal.

So where does that fit on the liberal spectrum? Who knows. Who defines?