BBC article on schools trans guidance

[WarriorN]

Trans guidance is needed in schools, parents tell BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66709052

On a quick read, surprisingly balanced.

Isn't it!

I like the juxtaposition of these paragraphs:

"We are talking about a very small number of people who are transgender, and I think that schools need to consider this," Mike says.

How are teachers navigating this?
As many as two thirds of secondary school teachers teach pupils who identify as transgender or non-binary,

Mike’s child is not as special as he thinks!

have used the same pronouns both parents did when talking about their children, whose birth sex is both female.

Interesting they've only focused on girls.

Sometimes the implications of it being a boy is more wide ranging when it's pointed out they can't use the girls' loos, though this is obviously more of an issue amongst girls.

They had just gone along with it - I was shocked by that. There was no clinical or medical input," Rachel says. "What the school has done by taking the actions they did undermined my parental responsibility. It's not for them to make those decisions."

Note: There was no clinical or medical input,

I thought that was a really key point Warrior. Which other medical diagnoses would schools allow students to make without reference even to their parents? Too sick to come to school today? Allergic to sport/swimming? Autism - need extra time in exams?

It's still fairly sinister that parents are considered to be an enemy. In law children are still responsible for their children and their children's education. We don't parent because the state says we can. I think parents need to take back 'control.' Teachers etc don't know our children better than us.

I think this is a good point too. I think more and more people don't think of 'gender dysphoria' as a medical condition. It's a choice that children have a right to make.

I noticed the 'Mike says Sam felt excluded from the discussion and would have been much happier using facilities with a gender-neutral sign.'

When DC was at sixth form, and again at university, apparently the transboys preferred the gender neutral loos; the transgirls preferred the girls' loos. Funny, that.

The condition and associated treatment of which social transition is, need to be thrown back to medical clinical jurisdiction. Not teachers. Not qualified.

Yes funny that Dodo.

There's no reference to safeguarding duties (apart from a government quote) in there? Mostly about following "equalities" law?

In what seems to be the case of a natal girl suffering gender distress, I feel for the school as regards changing facilities. The child is still female and so they were right not to put her with the males. If I were the mother of one of the boys, I'd have been extremely concerned about the impacts of that. And the child's family should be too. The school safeguarded her, it seems. They could try being grateful.

I wonder where that school got their "legal advice" from? Gendered Intelligence, Mermaids, Stonewall all purport to "know" the law in relation to this yet all ignore safeguarding guidance and overlay adult wishes onto children - completely legally untested. I suspect they'd find it hard to defend in a court a school removing parental rights - when in law only the courts have this legal ability. The police and social services both have to defer to the courts before removing parental rights,

I find the whole situation so depressing as a teacher. My school is so "captured" and the number of trans identifying students is increasing all the time, and I think they wouldn't so rapidly if they weren't bombarded with progress badges and flags everywhere in the school. I've already contacted the DSL to push back on the policy that students use the changing rooms "they feel most comfortable in". After one assembly when a trans-ID male student, Susie* was invited to speak about his dyslexia [hundreds of students have dyslexia but he was chosen] one boy in my form asked me very seriously and concernedly whether that student uses the girls' facilities. Another simply snorted "That ain't no Susie". The majority of my students are so fed up of the few trans students being chosen for assemblies and parts in the school play etc.

The latest thing we were told at the recent inset is not to use the word "girls" when we mean female students. We must use a specific abstract symbol that essentially means 2nd best, I don't want to say because it's outing, but along the lines of "B", because we have a system where girls [and nb females and trans-boys] have a code with B in the system. Boys have A or C. A member of the 6th form team even said it in a sentence "if you've got any B's in your class...". I want to complain but I already stuck my neck out about the changing rooms. I resigned myself to moaning about it in my department - I told them if anyone dared call me a B to my face I'd bite their head off, I'm a fucking woman not a B.

Mumsnet is the only place I can talk about this... I tried telling some friends and all they could say was they thought it was wrong that trans boys are Bs too. Shouldn't they be lumping the trans girls with the "other girls". I'm exhausted

The article also accepts the concept of gender identity as a fact.

What the actual fuck @Mummy08m ?!

They may as well say pinks and blues!

I'm not personally aware of schools being in the habit of consulting lawyers tbh. Sounds more like stonewall etc

Thank you for the solidarity... I feel like I'm living in a dystopian novel sometimes. It doesn't help that no one I know IRL agrees with me wholeheartedly (and most disagree vehemently). Even my dh only agrees partially but thinks it's petty stuff that doesn't matter. I mean, calling girls Bs doesn't matter much I guess, it's rude and dehumanising imo but doesn't put them at risk of actual harm.

But inviting male students into girls' changing rooms? When our school was specifically over-represented in the Everyone's Invited peer sexual abuse allegations? Do they just not care if more of them get assaulted?! It gives me the absolute rage that girls (sorry, Bs) are being treated with such lack of care.

There's no reference to safeguarding duties (apart from a government quote) in there? Mostly about following "equalities" law?

I have noticed that increasingly they (the bbc particularly and the guardian) use examples of girls / women who id as the opposite sex because it negates the need for the reader to consider the impact and implications of a male using girls' toilets and changing rooms.

It's more palatable to consider a girl transitioning also as there is not the f word association.

In the same way that news stories aren't written about gay men must accept transmen as partners; it's always the lesbians who must accept TW.

When our school was specifically over-represented in the Everyone's Invited peer sexual abuse allegations?

And KCSIE specifically states policies to keep girls safe?!

I think I'd take that further some how if you can. Safe schools alliance

@2fallsagain I hope it's ok to tag.

A few interesting things in this article.

"until guidance for schools is issued, schools must make decisions on a case by case basis". I hear this 'case by case' line trotted out a lot. It's meant to sound very nice and personalised. But unless there are any criteria it's meaningless. And what criteria can there possibly be for treating a child as if they are the opposite sex? Unless the guidance either rules out social transition, or gives clear criteria, then schools are still left to make it up as they go.

The lack of focus on safeguarding is noticeable. The dad of the trans identified girl seems to be very confused about what it means. "Schools should be a place of safety and they have a legal duty of care to every child," Mike says. "I don't think a school should go against the child's wishes."

He seems to think 'safety' = "not being confronted with facts that they don't like". What if his child's wishes had been to sleep in the boys' dormitory? Or play rugby with the boys? Should the school make her 'safe' by allowing that? And what about their duty of care to all the other children? A child might have all kinds of wishes that it wouldn't be safe for a school or parent to indulge. We say no, to keep them safe. That's what being a responsible adult means.

Equating disagreement with abuse
There's this leap to 'if we tell parents they might throw their children out/abuse them' to justify hiding things from parents. I don't think there's any evidence that this is a common response to a child announcing they're trans, is there? It's horribly irresponsible of trans activists to scare children into thinking this is likely, or encourage them to think that 'hang on, let's talk about this' means that their parents hate them, or might abuse them.

A suggestion that there's a 'right' to social transition?

"Teachers told her they later consulted lawyers and were concerned that refusing her child's wishes, on the basis of Rachel's lack of consent, could be considered discrimination under equalities law."

Are schools introducing SelfID without bothering with any legislation?

Oh my! What about the girls who 'identify' as girls?! It's grim out there

Are schools introducing SelfID without bothering with any legislation?

Yes it's been going on for ages.

As have lots of educational resources and charities.

You should see the nonsense in teaching facebook groups

It was reported here that SIMS now has an area for pronouns so appears to be officially self Id via the school's data systems too.

Worse than that. SIMS has pronouns, gender identity and a "only use pronouns within school" flag.