Page 3 | BBC article on schools trans guidance

WarriorN · 2023-09-13T11:39:25+00:00

Trans guidance is needed in schools, parents tell BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66709052

InvisibleDragon · 13/09/2023 16:42

I have noticed that increasingly they (the bbc particularly and the guardian) use examples of girls / women who id as the opposite sex because it negates the need for the reader to consider the impact and implications of a male using girls' toilets and changing rooms.

I'm not sure if that's the effect/reason. In my experience, using an ftm example is more effective at getting that point across because it raises the opposite issue of putting a female student (often a young teen) into a totally male dominated environment like the boys changing rooms / dorm. Everyone can see that that's a disaster waiting to happen to that young person in a way that is less clear when you talk about a mtf example, where the inevitable "be kind" is trotted out.

Original poster

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 16:46

I see your pov but I don't think as many women have an issue with that.

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Original poster

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 16:48

Because, for example, girls moving into scouts has been normalised etc. a friend had no issues with her daughter sharing the boys' tent as she felt they'd all grown up together. Her daughter was the only girl in that troop at the time, the advert I watched the other day for cub scout leaders had 3 girls and one boy and a female lead.

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LoobiJee · 13/09/2023 17:06

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 13:37

What the actual fuck @Mummy08m ?!

They may as well say pinks and blues!

Or Xs and Ys….

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 13/09/2023 17:16

Oh my! What about the girls who 'identify' as girls?! It's grim out there

Don't be silly - inclusion is key and there is equal provision for everybody's identity to be respected and acknowledged without fear or judgement. Except for the girls, that is - they don't matter...

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 13/09/2023 17:17

You also can't change sex till 18.

You didn't need the last two words in that sentence,,,

Original poster

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 17:23

True.

I meant legally speaking

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Original poster

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 17:23

Though what's law to anyone these days?

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dimorphism · 13/09/2023 18:03

Mummy08m · 13/09/2023 13:34

I find the whole situation so depressing as a teacher. My school is so "captured" and the number of trans identifying students is increasing all the time, and I think they wouldn't so rapidly if they weren't bombarded with progress badges and flags everywhere in the school. I've already contacted the DSL to push back on the policy that students use the changing rooms "they feel most comfortable in". After one assembly when a trans-ID male student, Susie* was invited to speak about his dyslexia [hundreds of students have dyslexia but he was chosen] one boy in my form asked me very seriously and concernedly whether that student uses the girls' facilities. Another simply snorted "That ain't no Susie". The majority of my students are so fed up of the few trans students being chosen for assemblies and parts in the school play etc.

The latest thing we were told at the recent inset is not to use the word "girls" when we mean female students. We must use a specific abstract symbol that essentially means 2nd best, I don't want to say because it's outing, but along the lines of "B", because we have a system where girls [and nb females and trans-boys] have a code with B in the system. Boys have A or C. A member of the 6th form team even said it in a sentence "if you've got any B's in your class...". I want to complain but I already stuck my neck out about the changing rooms. I resigned myself to moaning about it in my department - I told them if anyone dared call me a B to my face I'd bite their head off, I'm a fucking woman not a B.

Mumsnet is the only place I can talk about this... I tried telling some friends and all they could say was they thought it was wrong that trans boys are Bs too. Shouldn't they be lumping the trans girls with the "other girls". I'm exhausted

It's so awful for the best teachers - you know the ones who understand safeguarding as more than a tick box exercise and reality and fact.

Thanks for pushing back as best you can, I hope things change for you soon @Mummy08m

It's only a matter of time until a school is sued by a collective of parents to high heaven and loses. What they're doing is against the law (there is a law requiring single sex toilets over age 8, if they're allowing the other sex in kids don't have this) and against safeguarding. As soon as someone mounts a legal challenge it's over, the problem is it needs a collective of parents to bring a case because the process is so punishing and few children are resilient enough to go through it alone and parents put their children's wellbeing first (being the primary safeguarders). It would take an exceptional child to be resilient enough to cope with a court case about this, unless in a large group.

I am so angry at the government doing bloody nothing about this and leaving it to legal challenge until anything happens. That's not ok when it comes to children. It's not ok when it comes to women either, really, as many are too vulnerable to cope with the punishment of drawn out court cases over YEARS but we do have our sheros / modern day suffragettes like Maya, Allison, Denise and all the others who bravely fight for us all. But imagine putting a child through that. Just awful.

dimorphism · 13/09/2023 18:09

I do have to say not all schools are captured. Which almost makes it worse for the kids in schools who are because they're receiving such gaslighting and it's such an uneven playing field - there are some schools safeguarding all children and balancing their needs, adhering to the law on toilets and safeguarding, not overriding parental responsibility and not encouraging children to keep secrets and live double lives.

The children in schools abandoning safeguarding for the sake of gender ideology are so disadvantaged compare to the pupils in schools where the adults are being responsible and adhering to the law.

Mummy08m · 13/09/2023 18:21

dimorphism · 13/09/2023 18:09

I do have to say not all schools are captured. Which almost makes it worse for the kids in schools who are because they're receiving such gaslighting and it's such an uneven playing field - there are some schools safeguarding all children and balancing their needs, adhering to the law on toilets and safeguarding, not overriding parental responsibility and not encouraging children to keep secrets and live double lives.

The children in schools abandoning safeguarding for the sake of gender ideology are so disadvantaged compare to the pupils in schools where the adults are being responsible and adhering to the law.

I do have to say not all schools are captured.

Are there...? Which, where, how can we find them - this is me genuinely wanting to know, because then I can quit my school and join a better one. It would be such a relief.

Honestly I could fill multiple threads with the madness at my school. (I feel I've hijacked this one too much already haha thank you all for listening to my rant earlier)

maltravers · 13/09/2023 18:43

“Sam would have been happier in gender neutral facilities” - what about the other 300 girls in the school, has anyone asked them whether gender neutral facilities make them happier or don’t they count?

YouJustDoYou · 13/09/2023 18:45

maltravers · 13/09/2023 18:43

“Sam would have been happier in gender neutral facilities” - what about the other 300 girls in the school, has anyone asked them whether gender neutral facilities make them happier or don’t they count?

They never count.

ArabeIIaScott · 13/09/2023 19:18

lavendersbluedillydilly12 · 13/09/2023 13:17

I think this is a good point too. I think more and more people don't think of 'gender dysphoria' as a medical condition. It's a choice that children have a right to make.

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being 'trans' has been deliberately excised from/distanced from GD.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/09/2023 19:48

dimorphism · 13/09/2023 18:09

I do have to say not all schools are captured. Which almost makes it worse for the kids in schools who are because they're receiving such gaslighting and it's such an uneven playing field - there are some schools safeguarding all children and balancing their needs, adhering to the law on toilets and safeguarding, not overriding parental responsibility and not encouraging children to keep secrets and live double lives.

The children in schools abandoning safeguarding for the sake of gender ideology are so disadvantaged compare to the pupils in schools where the adults are being responsible and adhering to the law.

Agreed. I know of a number of schools who've managed to keep the trans ideology where it belongs - away from schools & children. Where confident Heads & SLT keep the focus on learning, excellent pastoral care, behaviour & positive peer relationships. None of them allow the dubious individuals or lobby groups to influence school practice. Vulnerable students are intelligently supported and the confused minority supported by child centred practices.
They're genuinely inclusive where children really matter - not queer theorists and adult fetishes.