Responded to work email about the importance of pronouns - it's my first (sort of, quite discreet) outing

[Whoarethegrownups]

I work in a university and it's welcome week. We've just had an email sent round the whole school to remind us how important it is to greet people in a friendly and courteous manner - including a reminder to include our pronouns when introducing ourselves and in our email profiles. I responded - just to the person who sent the email, not the whole school - about the issues around conscious/unconscious bias and stereotype threat when asking women to preface every conversation and emails with reminders that they are part of an oppressed group, and that whilst I understand these issues are tricky, we need to consider the whole community. It was very mild and polite and only to one person, but I'm still feeling anxious about having explicitly brought up gender critical issues at work. I'm waiting to see if I get a response ...

😂🤣😂

Good on you. My opinion of someone's intelligence and judgement plummets when I see pronouns in an email signature. I'm sure that's not the intended effect.

To be really inclusive I suggest date of birth, mother's maiden name and name of first pet. And why not just chuck in your PIN to really bring your whole self!

Even then you could get an email from Ms Alex Taylor and expect to see a female physio and then get a nasty surprise when you arrive.

That is true in this university!
It seems especially bad that an exchange of views is not allowed on this subject in a place that is all about arguing from evidence.

Recently a suggestion that there is more than one view on the subject got shut down with the 'I am no longer engaging with you - I don't have to justify my existence' speech.

There was also a puzzling reminder that 'The Christian Right' are behind 'terf views' and using their massive funding to silence Trans people.

No-one in the group questioned this.

(I didn't dare but I've seen the church roof here and suspect that Christians both Right and Left will have little left-over from funding for that.)

I'd argue in that case that they only time anyone needs to give the second part of the pronoun is when they are going against the norm, otherwise (if they really must) they should simply use "he" or "she" and we are entitled to assume that they also use the related accusative and possessive pronouns.

I've just had our first interaction with a university- it says he/him/his- it made my DD automatically feel excluded and we are rethinking .

I'm starting to think like this too. I realise now that this pronoun use changes my opinion of people and institutions.

My thought about what gives me that sinking feeling on seeing such innocent little words attached to a person's name:

-People adding pro-nouns probably don't understand (or care about) sexism and the likely effect of making women declare themselves.

-They don't consider (or care ) that not everyone who thinks they are trans wants the choice between 'outing' themselves or lying about who they feel they are.

-It is possibly an indication that they have swallowed the whole ideology. They are warning me that they are surrounded by egg-shells.

-The little words are are intended to control how I speak about their owner even when they are not present. This seems rude!

I was looking for a new hairdresser recently, found somewhere local and tried to book on-line. Yep they wanted my pronouns..I could choose up to 4 from a list of about 50.
Readers they did not get my business.

The mail I had also suggested stating your age when introducing yourself "in an inclusive way".

WTF?

How the hell is that 'inclusive'? It's just an invitation to discrimination.

Ah I think we may be at the same university. Your arguments about the effect of this on female staff is exactly what I use when I'm fighting against compulsory pronouns in my unit. It's exhausting dealing with people with such low critical thinking ability that they just go along with these things

Good god, I’m so relieved that I’m not at the start of my teaching career. I’m a 74 year old dinosaur 😆

I can’t get upset by someone who states their pronouns on a badge/email whatever.

No one should be forced to do it though.

The mail I got wasn't forcing us, just encouraging it as a thing it's thoughtful to do. But I fully expect people to characterise those of us who don't by sex stereotypes. For male staff, it's because they're assertive and maybe a bit out-of-date, for female staff it's because they're bolshy and not team players. Would fit with past experience. But, who knows, maybe I'm overthinking it.

Excellent conversation on exactly this topic... some excellent replies and links to resources..

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4874606-fg-pronouns?page=4

There is some helpful guidance here, although it could be a bit more detailed:

https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-hub/guides/2023-pdfs/transgender-non-binary-edi-in-the-workplace-guide-2023.pdf

But it says don't make pronouns compulsory, or imply that they are.

It is strange. In CVs we were encouraged to not mention our sex or age because it can increase discrimination but here we are back to giving endless details about our sex, sexuality ethnicity, gender identity etc on all sorts of forms to minimal advantage and possible disadvantage to those giving the info.

Because these twits never had to face the real and actual discrimination/sexism many of us did when we started our working life. God, I even remember one director sending her (!!) secretary home to change when she had the audacity to wear trousers to work.

Space for pronouns is now included as standard on our work email signature template. You are encouraged but not obliged to include them. Because you have to actively delete them, rather than actively add them, I'm finding it very interesting to see the people who chose not to use them... A subtle, unobtrusive way to find potential allies.

@mypronounsaremine "The mail I had also suggested stating your age when introducing yourself "in an inclusive way".

I've never, ever done this, and never had it done to me. How completely bizarre, irrelevant, and inappropriate.

Hi, I'm DuesToTheDirt, my pronouns are Bull/Shit, oh and I'm 79. WTF.

Ours too. I have to say I hold in higher esteem those who have just deleted the nonsense.

Pronouns indeed. ‘Mary Smith she/her’ with a photo of an obvious woman is just dumb. I have yet to meet a colleague with a pronoun that doesn’t meet their sex.

The only surprise I had was one man who is very ‘feminine’ in presentation and dress sense, and unisex name (I assumed he would be a she:her) yet wears a he/him pronoun badge these days. I wonder if that’s because people actually asked him?

I was talking with a male sales assistant the other day in shop supplying a very typically male hobby. As I went to pay I noticed they had 'she/her' on their work badge. As they were tall, bald, bearded, had a male name and were wearing male clothing, my initial, gut reaction was that they had female pronouns as a piss take. I think I'd rather believe that than the alternative.

well done OP!

I can recommend telling all these straight virtue signallers “I decline to share pronouns In solidarity with trans people, for whom the decision to transition is often a very considered one taken after a period of preparation. It’s wrong to put people on the spot before they’re ready.”

Well done on speaking up. It’s really hard and stressful at first but it gets easier. I’m now much less anxious when raising issues about gender woo which is taking over my workplace. You might, like me, also find colleagues who are gender critical, who are a great source of support and knowledge! I couldn’t do without my networks now. Strength in numbers!

Your AGE? Wtf?

Im always reminded of the old 'Joan Smith (Miss)' signatures when I see pronouns - it looks equally old fashioned to me. I think if I were told I had to include my age I'd go equally retro and add 'Over 21'. Before calling ACAS about my age discrimination lawsuit.