Page 4 | F*****g pronouns

Gettingbysomehow · 2023-08-17T21:35:50+00:00

I've avoided it for years because it's rubbish but have now been told I put my pronouns on my email or else. So I've put us/we and when asked what that was all about I said I've always felt like two people and want to be addressed as such. Apparently I am taking the piss. I'm not sure it's me taking the piss and if I want to be two people I will be. I'm 61 and in my opinion know my own mind. It's all such a ridiculous farce anyway.

Piranhaha · 18/08/2023 10:54

I am having a related issue at the moment actually. The NHS has referred me for a diagnosis and the paperwork I’ve been asked to complete requests my gender and pronouns but not my biological sex. I’ve just ticked “prefer not to respond”.

DH thinks this will encourage the doctors to assume I’m trans or non binary, and could offend my assigned doctor enough to refuse to diagnose me. He thinks I should just tick female and she/her to avoid any hassle. Thoughts? What do I say if the doctor asks about my gender?

Mummy08m · 18/08/2023 10:58

Piranhaha · 18/08/2023 10:54

I am having a related issue at the moment actually. The NHS has referred me for a diagnosis and the paperwork I’ve been asked to complete requests my gender and pronouns but not my biological sex. I’ve just ticked “prefer not to respond”.

DH thinks this will encourage the doctors to assume I’m trans or non binary, and could offend my assigned doctor enough to refuse to diagnose me. He thinks I should just tick female and she/her to avoid any hassle. Thoughts? What do I say if the doctor asks about my gender?

It won't offend your doctor. It's not enough information.

When I got asked a similar question by my midwife at my booking appointment (she had a box she needed to tick on her screen) I just said "I'm a woman!" In an "isn't that flipping obvious" tone of voice. That was all.

Interestingly, I wasn't asked this question in my previous pregnancy only 3 years ago.

Which backs up a point I've made in other threads on FWR, this problem is getting bigger rather than smaller.

CherryPieMadness · 18/08/2023 11:06

As a woman I feel like many people doing different roles all the time. So I feel you

Neverthecornflakegirl · 18/08/2023 11:13

Mummy08m · 18/08/2023 09:09

I agree with this.

I also object vociferously to compliance with this ideology. But cheeky game-playing gets us nowhere.

You have to respect that these people at work, pressuring you to do this, are usually not diehard TRAs who hate Glinner and Germaine Greer. 95% they're just well-meaning bumblers, generally intelligent people who haven't looked into this thoroughly and for whom this isn't a big part of their job but just a quick tick box exercise.

Childish game playing won't win over these well meaning bumblers. They won't understand the nuance behind it, because they lack all the context.
Game playing won't win over the diehard TRAs - very little will.
Game playing also won't endear you to your fellow GCs at work, many of whom might be serious mature-ish women.

So, it wins no one over.

Show quote history

I agree with this. When it was suggested to me where I work I said I preferred not to and when slightly pushed on it, I said I thought in so doing I might inadvertently pressure others who didn’t want to add their pronouns into feeling forced to. Nothing has been said since. It is noticeable though that I am the only one in my large team who has declined to add their pronouns. Absolutely ridiculous but there we are. I don’t expect it to be mentioned again.

popebishop · 18/08/2023 12:58

Mummy08m · 18/08/2023 09:09

I agree with this.

I also object vociferously to compliance with this ideology. But cheeky game-playing gets us nowhere.

You have to respect that these people at work, pressuring you to do this, are usually not diehard TRAs who hate Glinner and Germaine Greer. 95% they're just well-meaning bumblers, generally intelligent people who haven't looked into this thoroughly and for whom this isn't a big part of their job but just a quick tick box exercise.

Childish game playing won't win over these well meaning bumblers. They won't understand the nuance behind it, because they lack all the context.
Game playing won't win over the diehard TRAs - very little will.
Game playing also won't endear you to your fellow GCs at work, many of whom might be serious mature-ish women.

So, it wins no one over.

Show quote history

I agree.
It's annoying because it's a good example of one of the linguistic "tricks" where some will clearly be using it to mean "sex", and others "gender" but we all just muddle through.

LoobyDop · 18/08/2023 14:52

I agree with not playing games. The vast majority of people you work with will either be of the unthinkingly “be kind” persuasion, or mildly GC but not enough to want to get into trouble over it. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to say “can we use the word sex, not gender” and explain what the difference is. I’ve had the most ridiculous conversations about non-binary, that I can’t risk outing myself with here. But the only way you win is by explaining patiently, every time. It’s all very well for the self-employed activists to take no shit and give no fucks. That’s their choice and I admire it, but some of us need to be paid by other people, and once the overton window has been moved, it’s voices in the mainstream that will win over the majority.

LondonLass91 · 18/08/2023 14:59

Gowlett · 18/08/2023 00:54

I laugh every time I see the he/she/whatever beside people’s names. I can’t believe it’s actually taken seriously… Especially in work!

I know! It's so ridiculous isn't it. My husband works for JP Morgan and has been asked to add this to his email signature..he just ignores the requests but literally everyone in the IT department puts them in. Like 6ft John with a beard has he/him under his name...it's just so utterly ridiculous!

Floofydawg · 18/08/2023 15:02

donnawinters · 18/08/2023 01:17

It sounds like you are taking the piss IMO

If you don't like your job you're free to give notice you know?

It's the employer who's taking the piss, not the OP. Why the fuck should anyone be forced to comply with this bullshit?

PrimitivePerson · 18/08/2023 15:52

LoobyDop · 18/08/2023 14:52

I agree with not playing games. The vast majority of people you work with will either be of the unthinkingly “be kind” persuasion, or mildly GC but not enough to want to get into trouble over it. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to say “can we use the word sex, not gender” and explain what the difference is. I’ve had the most ridiculous conversations about non-binary, that I can’t risk outing myself with here. But the only way you win is by explaining patiently, every time. It’s all very well for the self-employed activists to take no shit and give no fucks. That’s their choice and I admire it, but some of us need to be paid by other people, and once the overton window has been moved, it’s voices in the mainstream that will win over the majority.

Thank you for a sensible, measured reply. People seem very ready to go straight to DEFCON 1 with this without actually taking a step back and looking at why it's happening. It's almost certainly just somebody trying to do the right thing, and if you think it's not the right thing, there's a way of raising that.

TheInterceptor · 18/08/2023 15:55

Get/stuffed

Carouselfish · 18/08/2023 17:17

I want to chip in to the posters saying take it more seriously and that mockery is stooping, that actually, sometimes the best way to undermine something IS mockery, having a sense of humour etc.
I'd go the route of saying how triggered and upset you feel by them not believing you.

lifeinthelastlane · 18/08/2023 17:31

I'm not sure that "they're probably nice people", "they're just trying to tick a box" etc means we should not challenge the request - it's all a bit too much like the "I was only following orders!" non-defence.

Original poster

Gettingbysomehow · 18/08/2023 17:34

Thanks everyone, I laughed a lot reading all these replies and found them very useful.
I actually love my job and have no intention of resigning but neither will I conform to utter nonsense. I am respectful towards all people at work but I'm also not a sheep and at my age I can't be doing with this nonsense. I've seen every fad going over the last 43 years and have never taken the slightest bit of notice of any of it and I'm still here.
I am preparing to be "triggered".

OP posts:

TheJRTwontLetMeBe · 18/08/2023 18:03

OP's employer - could you please state your preferred pronouns on your emails?
OP - Erm, how do I decide my preferred pronouns?
Employer - well how do you identify, and how would you like others to address you? It's so important that individuals are addressed as they would prefer.
OP - Oh, ok, then I identify as "us/we".
Employer - WRONG!

This whole thing is such a joke, and I can't believe so many supposedly intelligent people go along with it.

LoobyDop · 18/08/2023 18:36

lifeinthelastlane · 18/08/2023 17:31

I'm not sure that "they're probably nice people", "they're just trying to tick a box" etc means we should not challenge the request - it's all a bit too much like the "I was only following orders!" non-defence.

I agree. I don’t think it shouldn’t be challenged, just that taking the piss, although tempting, won’t achieve the desired effect.

JemOfAWoman · 18/08/2023 19:01

Have a look at what legal feminist have to say about pronouns!

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2022/04/26/grammar-and-grievance/

You are quite within your right to state you do not believe people have an inner gender identity and therefore people who interact with you can see you are a woman, and you are not offended if someone were to get it wrong! It is also a protected characteristic to believe in biological sex and then if you are pushed request in writing why this is necessary, how it will enable you to do your job better (because that's what they pay you for) and what they are planning to do if you do not comply.

If I was being really arsey, I would check if your company pays to be part of the stonewall diversity scheme and then do a FOI application to see how much is being spent in both time and money on Stonewall and not on other 'protected characteristics'

They clearly don't have enough to do!

NooNakedJacuzziness · 18/08/2023 19:20

We have a Michael Jackson at my firm. If they make us have pronouns I so want him to be he/he

Gowlett · 18/08/2023 19:28

NNJ 😂

ShowOfHands · 18/08/2023 19:34

I'd add all sorts of shit before I added pronouns: pseudo religions; star signs; crystal preferences; position of the fortnight; favourite curry; cycle day with cervical mucous detail; short, medium and long-term personal goals; weight; height; last night's dreams. I'd fucking rejoice in it as well. Maybe a couple of flags tacked on the end to match my Ancestry DNA results.