Page 3 | National Trust AGM

PRAMtran · 2023-09-04T12:59:37+00:00

I’ve received an email from the National Trust inviting me and all other members to vote in their AGM. Does anyone know if there are any things a woman’s rights advocate should vote for or against. Eg TWAW by stealth.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 05/09/2023 05:07

WarriorN · 04/09/2023 20:19

TheirEminence · 05/09/2023 06:32

Interesting thread. Don’t have strong opinions on the matter personally but would point out that the NT seems like a classic case of bureaucratic politics where the interests and views of the few shape the choices of the many (https://www.britannica.com/topic/bureaucratic-politics-approach ).

Ideally, NT would tick all the boxes: theme park for those who just want to relax, educational and aesthetic resource, conservation of Britain’s national heritage for future generations … most monuments of the distant past were built with the labour of the poor and exploited, from the pyramids to Machu Picchu to the great cathedrals of Europe. Doesn’t make it right but is perhaps an uncomfortable reminder that too often humans have accepted evil in order to build great and beautiful things.

I’m not sure that byline times and the Good Law Project (unaccountable vanity project of a transactivist KC) are completely reliable sources …

Bureaucratic politics approach | Definition & Facts

Bureaucratic politics approach, theoretical approach to public policy that emphasizes internal bargaining within the state and specifically argues that policy outcomes result from bargaining among a small group of governmental actors seeking to advance...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/bureaucratic-politics-approach

IWillNoLie · 05/09/2023 07:04

Wow. A poster chucking accusations of far right involvement to discredit a movement that goes against their personal agenda….

Xiaoxiong · 05/09/2023 07:23

I love this thread. It shows that knowing there are two biological sexes - and they matter - is truly not a partisan stance. You can disagree on basically every other political position and agree on this one because it's biological fact.

IWillNoLie · 05/09/2023 07:28

The question of why Lord Flossy never married is not answered by speculating he was gay. Marriages amongst the aristocracy were political and about succession and retaining power and wealth. Being attracted to your spouse was not required.

Clymene · 05/09/2023 07:30

Anyone who quotes the fox killer's outfit as a reliable source of anything is a joke

IWillNoLie · 05/09/2023 07:38

Clymene · 05/09/2023 07:30

Anyone who quotes the fox killer's outfit as a reliable source of anything is a joke

And this

”So you're not bothered about preventing fracking on NT land, fox hunting “

Fox hunting bad (and also illegal so won’t happen) but battering foxes to death with a baseball bat good?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/09/2023 07:47

narniabusiness · 04/09/2023 18:04

Truthfully? No I don’t want history primarily. I want architecture, gardens, art, sculpture,fine furnishings. I want to know about who made or designed them. I’m reasonably well aware of the historical exploitation of people at home and overseas and if I want to know more I would read a book.

Yes, it’s a day out for fucks sake

suffering? Oh yay kids! Let’s go and learn about some suffering!

DatumTarum · 05/09/2023 07:50

I'm not going to argue with people who literally state that they're not interested in history. We're never going to agree.

But I'm wondering about the battering foxes over the head bit?

EdithStourton · 05/09/2023 07:54

IWillNoLie · 05/09/2023 07:04

Wow. A poster chucking accusations of far right involvement to discredit a movement that goes against their personal agenda….

I know - how entirely unexpected!

I'm sick to death of bloody everything being seen through the prism of imported theories from the US.

jotunn · 05/09/2023 07:57

DatumTarum · 05/09/2023 07:50

I'm not going to argue with people who literally state that they're not interested in history. We're never going to agree.

But I'm wondering about the battering foxes over the head bit?

The KC behind the good law project was proud of himself for hitting a fox with a baseball bat while wearing a kimono. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/26/prominent-lawyer-jolyon-maugham-tweets-about-clubbing-a-fox-to-death

Sausagenbacon · 05/09/2023 08:03

What's remarkable about the nt is however dumbed down they have become, compared to English heritage. The information provided by the latter is much higher quality. Nt interpretation is full of 'what do you think....' signs. Well, thanks, but I can think for myself.

LoobiJee · 05/09/2023 08:03

DatumTarum · 05/09/2023 07:50

I'm not going to argue with people who literally state that they're not interested in history. We're never going to agree.

But I'm wondering about the battering foxes over the head bit?

Asking you questions about the statements you’ve made isn’t arguing with you.

You said “we” defeated the Restore Trust last time. Who is “we” and what was your involvement in that defeat?

maltravers · 05/09/2023 08:04

It’s possible to be interested in history you know, without wishing to be force fed today’s fashionable interpretations. Take a visit to the Mary Rose for example. Why would you go and see it if you’re not interested in history? Also, why should you have to endure the retrofitting of history to line up with a curator’s ideas about GI and queering?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/09/2023 08:05

DatumTarum · 05/09/2023 07:50

I'm not going to argue with people who literally state that they're not interested in history. We're never going to agree.

But I'm wondering about the battering foxes over the head bit?

I am interested in history, i have a degree in it and all sort of books on all sorts of historical periods, and a poster upthread has summed up my opinion very succinctly

And frankly, a huge part of what has turned people off about this kind of thing is not history being accurately recorded, it's about it being inaccurately and anachronistically presented by people who want to wrap everything up in a personal agenda. It's as if people with a mania for religion brought every museum piece, artwork, and historic property down to religious and theological issues, no matter how peripheral, and expected everyone to think that is the most important element these items and places

The nit comb controversy being a very good example. That's the issue a lot of us have with the NT and various museums who seem determined to see everything from the past via a particular lens. Frank Furedi had a good article in the Mail a few weeks ago about this very thing.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12438759/PROFESSOR-FRANK-FUREDI-museums-war-past.html

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/09/2023 08:05

Look, I’m a member because I think the work the trust does preserving the fabric of some beautiful and important buildings is a good way for my money to be spent

I worry that they’re not making the best decisions about where to spend their funds, for example I believe many of the residents of Lacock are concerned about the state of some of the buildings

I’ve got no problem with materials being produced to help visitors understand how the funds were amassed to build some of the amazing houses (although I suspect it’ll get a bit samey. Rich people tend to get there by exploiting other humans, innit?)

but the point of the trust isn’t to do that, that’s the icing

the cake is keeping the buildings maintained

Clymene · 05/09/2023 08:18

@IWillNoLie maybe a Boxing Day fox killing is okay if you're wearing a kimono? 🤷🏼‍♀️

EdithStourton · 05/09/2023 08:18

DatumTarum · 05/09/2023 07:50

I'm not going to argue with people who literally state that they're not interested in history. We're never going to agree.

But I'm wondering about the battering foxes over the head bit?

Oh, I'm fascinated with history. My poor DC used to get dragged round churches, me with Pevsner in hand ('It says in the church guide that the woman in this grave has been . I have several books on the go at the moment, one on Tudor houses and another about World War II in Asia.

I just think that forcing the past into a modern mould is profoundly ahistorical.

Floisme · 05/09/2023 08:19

Interesting, I'm not a National Trust member and don't pretend to know a lot about this and and I'll admit I might find the nit comb quite interesting. However, if Nigel Farage is involved with Restore then surely we all know by now that he is highly adept at spotting an issue of public concern and amplifying - some would say inflating - it; and that (remarkably for an ex stockbroker) he is also skilled at casting himself as the people's champion and his opponents as out of touch elites.

Anyone who still believes the way to deal with him is to dismiss the issue, disdain to even argue your corner and belittle and insult anyone who shares any of the concerns can't have been paying much attention to recent history.

LoobiJee · 05/09/2023 08:20

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/09/2023 15:33

I’m a member of Restore Trust and have been since it was set up. @Datum is misinformed about the group, it is a gras ps roots organisation of existing members , trying counteract the increasing influence of the usual suspects on the NT. It has nothing to do with ‘pretending slavery didn’t exist’, but it does resent the forcible promotion of ( sometimes completely imaginary) LGBT+ ‘histories’, and un historical narratives at its properties.

More importantly, we are trying to maintain the employment and influence of properly qualified curators and property managers, who are being increasingly sidelined or even made redundant in favour of the ‘Elizabeth I was a trans man’ brigade,( see thé gay nit comb at the Mary Rose for a similar saga) and to prevent the closure and alienation of several important properties.

Show quote history

Could you give specific examples of the things you are campaigning on?

I thought I’d read somewhere that there was a controversy / local opposition to house building related to the NT but I can’t remember the details and google hasn’t helped.

I can see how that sort of thing would involve local grassroots groups which might then develop into various local groups collaborating with each other to create a national campaign.

It would help subscription-paying and voting members to know more of the details and specific local campaigns to help them decide how to vote in the AGM.

SunnieShine · 05/09/2023 08:22

PRAMtran · 04/09/2023 16:18

It’s not about the using of loos it’s about the eradication of women

He knows that, he is just trying to derail the thread.

LoobiJee · 05/09/2023 08:24

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/09/2023 08:05

Look, I’m a member because I think the work the trust does preserving the fabric of some beautiful and important buildings is a good way for my money to be spent

I worry that they’re not making the best decisions about where to spend their funds, for example I believe many of the residents of Lacock are concerned about the state of some of the buildings

I’ve got no problem with materials being produced to help visitors understand how the funds were amassed to build some of the amazing houses (although I suspect it’ll get a bit samey. Rich people tend to get there by exploiting other humans, innit?)

but the point of the trust isn’t to do that, that’s the icing

the cake is keeping the buildings maintained

Edited

It’s not just about buildings Bernard, the National Trust also own swathes of countryside and coastline.

Lots of people are members for the free car parking in touristy areas.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/09/2023 08:58

Wasn't part of the point of the NT to open up these great parks, houses and countryside for the leisure of the masses (in addition to preserving/conserving them)?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/09/2023 09:07

Agreed re countryside

but I think my worry is that you can neglect a car park and then when priorities change again (as they will), it’s quite possible to get it back into a decent state

on the other hand it’s possible to allow a building to decay into a state you can’t come back from

i do appreciate material being available to put the places I visit into context, but I’m not there for political finger wagging

the allocation of funds is always a difficult job. The Trust does have a clear vision of what it’s for. They just need to stick to it

We’re Europe’s biggest conservation charity and we look after nature, beauty and history for everyone to enjoy

Original poster

PRAMtran · 05/09/2023 09:15

I’m still non the wiser in finding out if any of those standing for election are TRAs stealthing into yet another institution

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