National Trust AGM

[PRAMtran]

I’ve received an email from the National Trust inviting me and all other members to vote in their AGM. Does anyone know if there are any things a woman’s rights advocate should vote for or against. Eg TWAW by stealth.

Perhaps by If you'd care to tell me why you think I feel able to dictate that and where these other places are I think people should go then I'm all ears. you mean you are not opposed to what the national trust has done, then all well and good.

There are quite a few assumptions in your post - not least that I'm obliged to tell you what I think of the NT and get your approval, which is what I assume you mean by 'all well and good'?

This thread was about “the other issue” but got diverted.

This. RTFT. The OP was about not wanting to vote for trans rights activists.vI can't imagine anyone wanting to "decolonise" and "queer" collections would want to vote for people they disagree with either.

Some good examples and illustrations on this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4891201-oh-kew-not-you-too

Paywalled, unfortunately.

'Our education system ignores a difficult and bloody period of our history'

Our education system ignores, in my experience, the vast majority of 'our' history. We got taught WW2, and that was it. Sum total. Nothing else. Nada.

Yes, very limited. But I presume down to time constraints.

Which periods of history do we study and which do we ignore, and who makes those choices?

Maybe down to time constraints. Maybe not.
another one here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/black-history-month-colonialism-history-teacher-whitewashing-selective-past-a8025741.html

And we all remember Gove’s whitewashing of the literature curriculum

Chesterton was a Distributist, he thought that the left and right were mirror images, utterly dependent on each other, and both a way to keep elites in power. A lot of his ideas now are found mainly in the cooperative movement. I'd hardly call that right wing.

Well, no. I'm in Scotland; it's different here. We have had our Eng Lit curriculum tartan-washed.

I know absolutely nothing about GK Chesterton. I thought the quote was interesting. That doesn't mean I'm 'allied' with him or 'aligned' with him or anything like that.

My kids seemed to be taught about the Celts, the Tudors and WW1. I absolutely agree that there should be a place in the national curriculum to look at 18th and 19th century Britain, including Empire and slavery.
otoh I just don’t think slavery is always a relevant prism to a country house visit, any more than enclosures, the feudal system, inadequate representation leading to aristocratic power etc.

You haven’t made any compelling argument as to why legitimate slavery connections shouldn’t be mentioned in the history of certain NT properties.

All you’ve argued, alongside others on your side is:

• Cos scones
• Want nice day out
• The problem is everywhere but I can’t actually name anywhere
• The source of a family’s wealth isn’t relevant to the history of a house
• Mention of slavery is being championed by people who also mention queer ergo I don’t like
• Want more ‘humour’ while discussing the deaths of 400,000 people, enslavement of of 3.1 million, rape etc.

You’ve been exposed as knowing very little indeed about history.

No one has argued slavery should “always” be a “prism” to consider the history of a country house.

I specifically listed earlier the legitimate types of connection that should be highlighted in guides, on boards etc.

And who put you in charge?

There is evidence aplenty of the capture of many of out institutions and organisations by American originated social justice theories. The reason that articles are now appearing in the media is because the push back has been going on for years at a grassroots level. Unfortunately, established left wing media outlets such as the Guardian have not had any interest in look critically at any of this - largely becauze they are now quite dependent on a transatlantic readership; many of their jourmalists are now american - and go along unquestioningly with it.

Many on the traditional British left now feel alienated by it - and even long standing left wing journalists have been refused any platform for an alternative perspective - hence the reason that you will now only find critique in media outlets such as The Times, the Telegraph, the Spectator, Spiked, Unherd and so on.

The British Left has now, itself been captured by american style identity politics - which is ironic given the general and traditional distate on the British Left for all things America/American culture. You'll find many/most people who post on FWR are actually ex Labour party members and trade unionists, long time activists of one sort or other. Trying to characterise alternative arguments and critiques as 'right wing' is. sadly, par for the course.

As i mentioned at the start of the thread I was learning about slavery and the triangular trade in my junior school in the 1970's. Around about that time there was also a very widely watch tevisation of Alex's Haley's novel 'Roots'. It was a memorable drmmaatisation which touched and informed many millions of people.

Typos sorry.......

So your logic could be summed up as:

• I agree the history of the family should be told at the property
• This naturally would include where they made their money, just like it’s normal to mention occupation in any biography
• Yet, when some new historical research (which is always a never ending process) turns up that one of those occupations was the slave trade, that information should not be included, despite being accurate and relevant, because….the people writing the info have an ideology I don’t like/they also support trans issues, although the slavery text doesn’t actually mention anything to do with trans and is a separate topic/scones/nice day out

I’ve read the thread and I haven’t seen any posts suggesting that “legitimate slavery connections” should not be mentioned in NT materials?

That doesn’t mean relevant info shouldn’t be included though, does it?

I recall, age 10, being asked to draw an image of a slave ship - with details of how the captured were chained up in rows like cargo. We learned of the term 'trianagular trade', and what it involved.

I used to be an English teacher ( believe it or not due to my tendency for typos. ) and way back we were teaching poetry and novels which were rooted in the black experienece, including slavery and apartheid in South Africa. We read Maya Angelou, Alice Walker, Toni Morrison.

I recall in the the late 1970's reading Alan Paton's. 'Cry The Beloved Country' in an English class.

The idea that slavery and oppression has been omitted from the curriculum is partisan fantasy.

There are quite a few posts arguing:

how a family made its money isn’t relevant

we don’t want to hear about “dark” history, we are here for scones

no historical context should be provided at all

modern slavery is an issue, so why are we bothering with it in the past.

Scroll back and enjoy the ignorance.

Me neither.

I don't see much point in much further dialogue with you to be honest.

Black History month in schools covers the slave trade, civil rights movement in America and other topics of course so it is taught in junior schools.