National Trust AGM

[PRAMtran]

I’ve received an email from the National Trust inviting me and all other members to vote in their AGM. Does anyone know if there are any things a woman’s rights advocate should vote for or against. Eg TWAW by stealth.

Yes, that’s alright, you’ve definitely won

(is winning and losing a thing when trying to have a conversation? Heigh ho. I expect that due to being middle class my contributions are null and void anyway)

Goodness, yes, you’ve definitely won 🥇 What competition had you entered? Do remind us all dear …

@EdithStourton

As equally important as slavery? How do you measure this? What is, as important as slavery?

You've clearly got some kind've metric here, what is it?

I’m wondering if somebody somewhere has identified Mumsnet FWR as a seat of resistance which needs to be targeted and neutralised in an “occupy and takeover” kind of way reminiscent of the Greens/Rape crisis centres/girl guides etc.

Anyhoo, I’ve got the blurb for 39 candidates to read <clutches forehead >

I think I’m going to vote for the RT motions

Yes, I’ve got some work to do too. Bye for now.

And I’m setting off for CarpetRight with a clear conscience 😆 See you all later back in the re education gulag!

I think you'll find you're putting words in my mouth.

As I said, persuasion will get you further than scolding people.

They're middle class, they know it all already you see!

The idea of people who believe in "queering the museum" berating people for being middle class is hilarious. This thread just keeps on giving. I'm not middle class, for what it's worth. But I strongly suspect you and @GodessOfThunder are.

It was a reference to a post made upthread (not by me) claiming NT visitors were mostly educated middle class types and therefore they knew where the money had come from already to build these houses.

I’m glad you found their post as silly as I did :)

Why does it matter whether they are educated or not? You're pushing a particular spin on it.

You both need to learn how to persuade people, not scold and patronise.

“queering” in practice doesn’t necessarily mean investigating sexuality or gender in the past. It can be used as a broad term for challenging normative assumptions. You may not feel the comfortable with the word itself, but I don’t see the issue with the practice.

It used to the case that history was written as primarily political history of “great” men. It was only through the work of largely Marxist and feminist historians that the stories of working class and women were surfaced. In their time many of them too were dismissed by skeptical types tied to the status quo. The shift from “women’s” to “gender” history did much to broaden the reach of the history of femininity and gender relations. Now many of their findings are mainstream. Todays youngsters will grow up seeing this stuff as just part of the historical furniture (young conservatives aside).

Quote fail

You both need to learn how to persuade people, not scold and patronise.

Yes, they aren't unusual in this sector though.

If you scroll back it’s clear who kicked off the ad hominem attacks

You may not feel the comfortable with the word itself, but I don’t see the issue with the practice.

Perhaps use a different word then, to respect for people who remember it when they got beaten up by thugs and had it shouted at them?

If you scroll back it’s clear who kicked off the ad hominem attacks

Yes, it was DatumTarum from what I can see.

How many times does it need to be explained that what has happened in many galleries/sites is that historical local characters/ figures are being reduced to their involvement with slavery - no matter how tangential; and whole other details about their importance or significance are being left out.

For example, at the gallery I mentioned earlier ( not an NT property) a large proportion of the new information boards mention nothing else. It is as if someone has said - let's look at these figures or artefacts and find the ways they were connected to the Atlantic Slave Trade and mention it as a priority.

This creates a running theme throughout the gallery - as everything is centred around this imperative. It ruined my experience of the newly re-furbed galleries -as it felt we were being force fed a very particular narrative at every available opportunity

Likewise for the 'queering' of subjects.

It wasn't a special exhibition that had the remit of focusing on this particular narrative - it was just within the general collection.

Such as?

@RebelliousCow

Just maybe, that's because without the labour of enslaved people, non of the stuff would be in the collection?

That’s not my personal experience of visiting NT properties. Let me know the name of the property and I’ll give you a POV.

Sometimes our brain deceives is that something is “everywhere” because it tends to notice the new more. This may not actually be the case.

Personally, I think the history of the Atlantic slave trade is fascinating. Both because of the colossal impact it had on the world and, because it's so hard to comprehend from the POV of most peoples relatively comfortable modern lives now.

Also, I'm descended from slave traders and a plantation bore our name.

This is a big, part of the recent history of the UK and other countries.

I think it's fascinating too. I would definitely visit a museum which had a slavery exhibition, and I have. I don't think it's directly relevant to focus on it in detail in an English country house though.

If there were slave quarters, or slaves had lived there, I think that's different.

And if it is established that the collection wouldn’t exist without slavery- what then? Destroy it because who in their right minds would want to look at something so tainted? Or sell it all and pay reparations?
or do we do nothing with that information? I’d be interested in the thoughts of the two posters who are pushing for this research.

I totally agree