No more rainbow badges for the met

[Hoardasurass]

Is sense returning to the police or is this something else?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/28/mark-rowley-police-not-allowed-support-causes-at-work/

The problem is which poppy do you wear - red, white, black, purple....... There is the argument then about most war memorials not acknowledging women that lost their lives in the war. Also people of colour are often not mentioned on them.

If we start wearing a badge supporting women - would the argument then come from people who are not women?

You can have the same argument with charity badges. Do we wear the pink ribbon for breast cancer or the pin badge for prostate cancer. Or both or neither.

They can be impartial and still not rape people, they're not mutually exclusive!

'it doesn't seem to want to achieve any future goals beyond perhaps less war.'

Well that would be great, but I'm not sure about that anymore. It's deeply necessary to honour the losses of war and the sacrifices made by so many, and pay respect to that.

Part of my problem with poppies is that they seem to have been forgetful of the 'less war' stance. They have recently been accused of pushing for army recruitment etc.

http://ww1centenary.oucs.ox.ac.uk/memoryofwar/is-act-of-remembrance-losing-its-original-never-again-sentiment/

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/i-stopped-wearing-poppy-when-it-no-longer-meant-never-again-1589562

https://www.ppu.org.uk/everyday-militarism

It's political. How could it not be?

Anyway, leaving aside reservations about what poppies have become and how the cause has potentially been hijacked; police uniform should be free of all political signage.

Agree. Just the uniform; no badges, pins, or flags. It's the only way, really.

We agree

I know, Felix, it must be a blue moon. 😁

The disagreement over poppies on this thread proves that they are (small p) political.

I'm a volunteer for the British Legion and have done a lot of work with veterans, but..

..as soon as you make one exception on impartiality, it's the thin end of the wedge. The police are there to protect* *everyone, including people who believe that poppies enable militarism or colonialism. Police who wish to show support for the British Legion can do so in their own time.

Police who wish to show support for the British Legion can do so in their own time.

Exactly that's why I said in my earlier post the announcement about not wearing badges, ribbons whatever, had been undermined by saying the poppy is okay.

And that is only because any politician knows that the many headed hydra that is the media totally owns this sanctification of the poppy and will hound anyone.

So the poppy issue isn't anything like any of the other signifiers. It isn't even state sanctioned. It is rule by media (mob).

A police officer was sexually assaulted and six others were bitten at the final day of Notting Hill Carnival.

The Metropolitan Police Federation (MPF) have said 75 officers in total were assaulted at the festival, which took place on Sunday and Monday.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/notting-hill-carnival-police-warfield-road-b2401089.html

The above is quite serious obviously, but made me wonder if those at the Carnival had also been told not to dance!

The police uphold law, order and the protection of our democratic society. So poppies are acceptable imo as are other expressions of loyalty to the crown and country.

The police should not be siding with anything subversive or rebellious.

as soon as you make one exception on impartiality, it's the thin end of the wedge.

The law that requires impartiality in schools has exceptions.

I'm pretty sure also that BBC impartiality has exceptions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality

"It does not require absolute neutrality on every issue or detachment from fundamental democratic principles, such as the right to vote, freedom of expression and the rule of law."

Poppies became political when the media started shaming people who chose not, or forgot, to wear one. Also because the money originally went to support those injured in the world wars and now supports service people more generally, some Irish people were unhappy with that.

Those who fought in world wars were protecting their homes. They were also fighting for freedom and that includes freedom not to go along with the majority view. I may hate what you say, I'd still defend your freedom to say it. I'll wear my poppy- and defend the right of anyone else not to do so.

I was about to type exactly this. I don't want Police Officers to inform me of their views, even if they are "good causes" (which is subjective anyway). I want them to wear their uniform only and do their job to the best of their ability.

Sir Mark Rowley said, "There are very few causes policing should be attached to.”, but I'd go a step further and say there are NO causes they should be attached to. Even ones remembering those who've died in the line of duty. Keep it to the private areas of the stations or keep it to their home lives.

Somehow all this virtue signalling and rainbow toy cars by the police doesn't seem to engender the respect that they think it does. If anything I think it makes people respect the police less. Urinated on from upper floor windows........

The Metropolitan Police said it made 308 arrests across Sunday and Monday and more than 50 officer were assaulted by being kicked, punched, spat on, bitten, head-butted and even urinated on from upper floor windows.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12460261/Notting-Hill-carnival-violence-Met-Police-officers.html

I remember the days of the Territorial Support Group and the death of Ian Tomlinson. There's no room for thugs in the police, and I have no desire to see them head back in that direction, but why must they always swing from one extreme to the other? Is there no sane middle ground based on common sense? Can they not just uphold the law, save the activism for off duty hours, and put buglars and rapists in jail?

What's the difference between this image and the one above?

God, the police must dread being on duty for the Notting Hill Carnival. Being urinated on from upper windows, blimey.

I didn’t know there were black and purple poppies. What are they about?

The difference with poppies as I see it is that it is limited to the 11th of November and the couple of days before or after depending on when Remembrance Sunday falls.

Secondly Remembrance Sunday parades will involve the police and the armed services, also Girl Guides and Scouts and as others said are connected to King and Country.

The red poppy remembers those who died fighting Nazis, fighting an authoritarian and totalitarian regime, fighting the horrors of the holocaust it remembers more widely all who lost their lives so that we could be free, including freedom of thought, conscience and speech.

I respect those who wear the white poppy and all conscientious objectors. I don’t think it would be appropriate for the armed forces or police to wear it as they have freely signed up to bear arms and use force to defend the peace, King and country.

I think that other colours of poppy, whatever they are meant to mean reduce the solemnity of Remembrance Day and politicise it. We really should not forget the Second World War, we must remember what our grandparents and great grandparents went through and how that shaped what came after and what we must avoid in future. For 1 minute on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month we stop and think in silence.

The current worrying trends in society seem to be lead by those who have forgotten what happened in the 20th century, the rise of authoritarian and totalitarian regimes and the consequences of that.

Having said all the above I do also get what others have said.

Any badge, flag etc can be the thin end of the wedge and if there isn’t a clear rationale for why poppies are different, if people forget what they are actually about and start diluting and politicising Remembrance with different colours signifying different causes then they should also be excluded from being worn by public servants because the original solemn meaning and unifying aspect is lost and I do feel very strongly that public servants should be politically neutral whilst on duty.

"The red poppy remembers those who died fighting Nazis, fighting an authoritarian and totalitarian regime..."

As a matter of historical fact, the poppy originated in 1921, adopted in Britain as the symbol of the British Legion, with cloth poppies sold to aid those in need who had fought, and to commemorate those who had died, in the First World War, a conflict between empires.

The red poppy remembers those who died fighting Nazis, fighting an authoritarian and totalitarian regime, fighting the horrors of the holocaust it remembers more widely all who lost their lives so that we could be free, including freedom of thought, conscience and speech.

The red poppy symbol started after WWI not WWII and originated from all the poppies which bloomed all over the churned up battlefields.
Now it represents all those lost in wars.

Chers x post

So it reminds us of the pointless sacrifice of the lives of young men in horrific circumstances, the propaganda used to trick them into signing up, the trauma of those who survived and a promise from the crown and the government that such a burden will never placed on another generation?

So it reminds us of the pointless sacrifice of the lives of young men in horrific circumstances, the propaganda used to trick them into signing up, the trauma of those who survived and a promise from the crown and the government that such a burden will never placed on another generation.

Pomegranate sure, but earlier you wrote:

The red poppy remembers those who died fighting Nazis, fighting an authoritarian and totalitarian regime, fighting the horrors of the holocaust it remembers more widely all who lost their lives so that we could be free, including freedom of thought, conscience and speech.

So are all deaths in war ‘pointless sacrifice’?

I don’t think so. The fight against Hitler was not pointless. I don’t think that the Ukrainians fighting against Putin are dying pointlessly.

So it reminds us of the pointless sacrifice of the lives of young men in horrific circumstances, the propaganda used to trick them into signing up, the trauma of those who survived and a promise from the crown and the government that such a burden will never placed on another generation?

Maybe the white poppy does this better.