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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ian Hislop is disappointing

128 replies

RoyalCorgi · 24/08/2023 20:02

Glinner's latest substack mentions that the new issue of Private Eye makes a dig at him for being "unhinged" on Twitter. Glinner then reveals that four years ago he emailed Ian Hislop asking him to cover the subject of SH, and politely explaining the issues. This is the reply Hislop sent:

Dear Graham,
Hello. Thanks for the messages and for alerting me to the activities of Hayden and Bergdorf. Despite my well known belief that Twitter drives everyone bonkers and my suspicion that the Trans/TERF debate is not quite as important as those involved in it believe, I do have people looking at the issues, the areas of impact in the real world, and I will pass on your information to them. “The oxygen of publicity” is always a possible side-effect of the “letting in of sunlight” but as I say I am grateful to you for the guidance. Hope that you are ok somewhere in the social media swamp.
Best,

I've always liked Private Eye and hoped that Hislop was privately gc, even if the subject didn't feature much in the mag. (Deputy editor Francis Wheen was very gc but has now retired.)

So that's a shame.

Here's Glinner's full post:

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/ian-hislop-knew

Ian Hislop knew

Private Eye had the cheek to call me ‘unhinged’ today, misrepresenting my opinions on such figures as John Money and Jacob Breslow as a sort of Tourette’s where I’m calling everyone a ‘nonce’. I wrote to Ian Hislop in 2019, once again foolishly thinkin...

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/ian-hislop-knew

OP posts:
Brefugee · 25/08/2023 11:06

"just the editor" is a bit, meh. He chooses what goes in and what stays out. He has to balance what they print with what their lawyers say they can print. And their lawyers aren't shy, retiring violets, are they?

I think he is very wise to keep his own council. Because like Brian Cox, i suspect that he - like most people - have priorities of their own.

My focus at the moment, tbh, is more on climate change (with a feminist slant because i learned a lot from Cynthia Enloe) so I can't be cross at people like Hislop and Cox who are keeping their heads down.

Having said that: i am expecting PE to publish something over the next 12 months or so, as things become much more mainstream. (Vogue GBs list of influential women might help tip it a bit - post Lionesses, post athletics triumphs)

LizzieSiddal · 25/08/2023 11:13

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but if I were Gia I’d be asking Brian to keep quiet re the issue. He works a lot for the BBC, we all know how captured they are, who knows what would happen to his career if he did speak out. Yes that’s unfair, but sometimes you have to look after yourself/family.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2023 11:19

I assume that any prominent people who keep quiet are at least mildly GC, but either can't afford to lose support or don't want the abuse and hassle.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2023 11:21

Ince is a misogynistic wanker who is enjoying trolling women by this point, I think, like Bragg.

CorruptedCauldron · 25/08/2023 11:26

If the gender house of cards came tumbling down tomorrow, what’s the betting that all these people currently staying silent would suddenly pipe up “oh god, wasn’t THAT a crazy time to be alive, totally batshit” etc. I’d put money on it!

Brefugee · 25/08/2023 11:34

but why shouldn't they? People have to decide for themselves if they want to put themselves in the firing line and potentially end up like GL.

I won't be upset or puzzled by that at all.

I WILL be upset or puzzled if people like Ince, Boyle and Bragg are saying that though. VERY upset.

CorruptedCauldron · 25/08/2023 11:37

I WILL be upset or puzzled if people like Ince, Boyle and Bragg are saying that though. VERY upset.

Well, quite. They’ve well and truly nailed their pink, white and blue colours to the mast. No way they can reverse ferret from that.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 25/08/2023 11:38

RealityFan · 25/08/2023 11:02

Here's the rub. I'm GC. A therapist, so always thinking about people issues and philosophical/ethical concerns. Reasonably liberal in my conversation in one to one situations with patients, fellow therapists, family (my GF's, I'm pretty much on my own my side).

Where I start to self censor, both formally and subliminally, is when I detect trans ally-ness from others, or where it's dead wrong to put someone on the spot unprepared, or with one or two members of my GF's family who I know would cast my opinions as potentially phobic, or in larger group gatherings, therapist training days, conferences, social meets with people I've never met and may never meet again.

I got burnt in a hobby meet where my thoughts on Brexit were construed as racism, right to my face like a brick launched at point blank range.

Of course when I do tentatively out my GCness, and the next person says "gosh, so am I, isn't it mad?!", its like you've made a friend for life.

But do I ever declare my stance to a room full of people at a conference that I don't know, let alone the world? No.

So, I'm Ian Hislop or Brian Cox. I'm likely GC in private on pure logic and science. And I have some close family, friends, colleagues who are GC. But my wider circle? The industry? The world?

Its a doddle being anti Tory/Brexit/vax deniers/Green naysayers in 2023.

Its impossible to be GC. Just look at the psychological terror perpetrated upon JKR and Glinner, the two most prominent GC media types. Look at the professional Hell wrought upon Kath Stock, Maya Forstater, Jo Cherry, Rosie Duffield. Look at the constant needling of the GC feminist authors.

Ian and Brian can see this. Just as I can only show my GC lapel badge to one person at a time, they won't ever show their true colours.

All of which is completely fair except that you are not - as far as we know - the editor of a magazine that prides itself on speaking truth to power and exposing scandals.

BloodyHellKen · 25/08/2023 11:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2023 11:19

I assume that any prominent people who keep quiet are at least mildly GC, but either can't afford to lose support or don't want the abuse and hassle.

This is also what I assume, especially as I'm yet to meet anyone whole believes the whole TWAW line - even my teenage/young adult children and their friends aren't on board with it. In fact the girls are both horrified by the idea of men dressed as women along side them in changing rooms/loos.

RealityFan · 25/08/2023 11:45

I read an interesting idea. That once a concept becomes flesh, it then speeds up its effect. And the more preposterous it is, the more it demands magical thinking and rigorous adherence.

If it's allowed to get to this point, it absorbs energy and mutates.

Like a virus or meme. And then the damage is really done as it courses through organisations and indeed the culture at large, unbounded, with unstoppable energy.

And literally weakening people's resolve to say no, or ignore, or deflect.

The time to stop it is near the start, where the concept would still draw maximum criticism and sarcastic retort.

Look at Rachel Dolezal, a decade ago developing her "trans racial" grift. Outed.

And PoC, her colleagues, friends, non whites outside her circle...they all, to a man and woman, said that her grift was unacceptable and deeply racist and damaging. She was nipped in the bud, and ostracised from polite society. Ditto many whites since who've claimed they're black or indigenous, Elizabeth Warren comes to mind, Oli London etc.

What do we all think would have happened has the black community waved Dolezal thru? That she'd have been an exception?

No, trans racialism would have been a real thing, and years on the meme would have so mutated and infected society and the body politic, that anyone telling any white that IDing as black was wrong, immoral, would be the ones facing consequences, ostracism.

But the trans racial thing was put out of its misery at birth, now any new Dolezals are laughed out of the room.

Unfortunately with transgenderism, the same zero tolerance for poisonous views re women wasn't shown. Not enough women and gays spoke up, too many women and gays supported it, most men turned the channel to watch the footy instead, too few in the media, ethics etc decided it was an issue.

And over two decades, what could have been the kernel of a non mainstream view toxic to women and gays kept firmly in its place, was allowed, encouraged even, to flourish.

Now it's a self generating virus, a meme, coursing thru the bloodstream of society.

And critically, it has its own energy. Such that the vast majority of journalists, scientists, philosophers, politicians, artists, historians etc will all both not touch it, everyone inhibiting everyone else from free discussion and challenging and testing concepts.

Genies and bottles.

Where would Hislop and Cox start?
A press conference to say trans ideology is anti logic, anti science, anti Establishment?
That's it's child abuse, re teen medicalisation?
That's it's infantilising society?
That's it's setting back women a century?
That it's anti human and contrary to what the West is all about?

And critically, that they always thought this, but were unmotivated, or too scared to speak up?

Or that they've just come to this conclusion?

Just how would this go down, how would their futures be ripped to shreds, how many family, friends, colleagues would dump them there and then?

How many others would come out in support spurred by their example?

It really is easier to live the lie.

Dramatico · 25/08/2023 11:47

Personally I have never really understood all the love for Ian Hislop. He's just another upper middle class complacent 'right side of history' type of person. I put him in the same box as Stephen Fry, Owen Jones, Caitlin Moran, people like that. People terminally shoved up their own a*ses. "Highgate talking to Islington", basically.

Also Private Eye ceased to be funny in January 2001 (when W became President). That is when they stopped being a thorn in the side of the Establishment and became The Establishment.

MOTU · 25/08/2023 11:52

I disagree, the private eye piece is sharply observing that this cancelling nonsense is nothing to do with actual beliefs or moral character but how well you publicly tow the line ....... I love Graham Linehan but his engagement on this issue is absolutely at times unhinged, if he was a personal friend I would have had many quiet words by now about some of the things he tweets. He's self defeating with his "if your not with us your against us" attitude, it's counterproductive in effecting change -reminds me in some ways of just stop oil protesters, I agree with their aims but their methods make them look batshit

RealityFan · 25/08/2023 11:56

CorruptedCauldron · 25/08/2023 11:26

If the gender house of cards came tumbling down tomorrow, what’s the betting that all these people currently staying silent would suddenly pipe up “oh god, wasn’t THAT a crazy time to be alive, totally batshit” etc. I’d put money on it!

They know that the receipts are being kept.
They're just practicing and memorising their Plan B..."oh, I really never said I believe this, there's no record of me saying I vouch for that"
As Helen Joyce says, so many can never be contrite, so deep buried underground are the sunk costs (those that have acquiesced to medical transition for their kids).
Others will spin on their dainty trans ally heels and confess to the fog of war, misunderstanding the issues, only wanting to
do their best for "the kids".
Others will genuinely reverse ferret seamlessly, gaslighting as they do.

Brefugee · 25/08/2023 11:57

i also think that we can't ask people who are fighting battles on other fronts to also battle on the trans ideology front (Cox with climate change and science deniers and Brexit) and Hislop - the Eye has been the major Front and Centre publication (with Computer news?) on the massive scandal - with people killing themselves, becoming bankrupt and being sent to prison for this, nothing like trans genocide of course but pretty bad - of the Post Office systems (alongside the other things the Eye publicises)

Hislop - i quite like him, he is pretty much no-nonsense and isn't given to making personal statements on anything
Cox - (he is my future husband) - he has far too much to lose by taking up the rallying cry of GCness, and too much to gain by sticking to the things he REALLY knows (science, and the effects of Brexit on science)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2023 11:57

Whatever anyone thinks of Graham Linehan I think it's clear that he feels that lots of his friends personally betrayed him or looked the other way while he was abused and his career destroyed. And that he takes it very personally.

ditalini · 25/08/2023 12:03

I've just read the brief piece in PE, and while I get why "Linehan's admittedly deranged Twitter presence" would absolutely sting, it's not unsympathetic - the take is that Comedy Unleashed's performance is utterly lacking in offensiveness, particularly when compared to previous performances by the likes of Boyle, and noting the latter's about face and hypocrisy.

Yes, they are absolutely on the fence, but it's been a good while since they've take a stance that might be unpopular with a chunk of their readership.

Brefugee · 25/08/2023 12:04

tbh you can't fault Linehan for feeling that way, while at the same time wondering why some of those friends didn't step in very early on and try to reel him in a bit?

Given what he and his wife had been through, if he were a friend of mine i would at least have tried.

Brefugee · 25/08/2023 12:05

ditalini · 25/08/2023 12:03

I've just read the brief piece in PE, and while I get why "Linehan's admittedly deranged Twitter presence" would absolutely sting, it's not unsympathetic - the take is that Comedy Unleashed's performance is utterly lacking in offensiveness, particularly when compared to previous performances by the likes of Boyle, and noting the latter's about face and hypocrisy.

Yes, they are absolutely on the fence, but it's been a good while since they've take a stance that might be unpopular with a chunk of their readership.

which issue of the Eye is it in? I have 2 waiting to be read

Datun · 25/08/2023 12:05

There's no way Hislop doesn't appreciate the importance of this. Even if he is a bit of a misogynist. It's clearly a massive political hot potato.

And it's right up his alley.

The free speech issue, the fear that swirls around it, the authoritarianism of the ideology. Plus you can make politicians look like utter twats merely by asking a question. And the absurd quotes he could mock are a never ending source of content.

Didn't Glinner do something similar with Gary Lineker? Emailed him recently, and when Gary wouldn't publicly support him, posted his emails on Twitter?

I can't imagine Glinner would've wasted the opportunity to ask Hislop again.

Presumably the answer he received has goaded him into showing that email.

It probably won't work. It might even push Hislop further away. I imagine he'd see it as bullying.

But, I can't see any real excuse for Hislop not picking this up a bit more.

He probably doesn't want to get cancelled, but then he doesn't have to go as all out as Glinner has, does he.

I know they've done the odd bit, but the seam is so rich, not mining it further is a deliberate decision.

ditalini · 25/08/2023 12:06

Brefugee · 25/08/2023 12:05

which issue of the Eye is it in? I have 2 waiting to be read

1605 (mine came yesterday).

ditalini · 25/08/2023 12:08

Datun · 25/08/2023 12:05

There's no way Hislop doesn't appreciate the importance of this. Even if he is a bit of a misogynist. It's clearly a massive political hot potato.

And it's right up his alley.

The free speech issue, the fear that swirls around it, the authoritarianism of the ideology. Plus you can make politicians look like utter twats merely by asking a question. And the absurd quotes he could mock are a never ending source of content.

Didn't Glinner do something similar with Gary Lineker? Emailed him recently, and when Gary wouldn't publicly support him, posted his emails on Twitter?

I can't imagine Glinner would've wasted the opportunity to ask Hislop again.

Presumably the answer he received has goaded him into showing that email.

It probably won't work. It might even push Hislop further away. I imagine he'd see it as bullying.

But, I can't see any real excuse for Hislop not picking this up a bit more.

He probably doesn't want to get cancelled, but then he doesn't have to go as all out as Glinner has, does he.

I know they've done the odd bit, but the seam is so rich, not mining it further is a deliberate decision.

They do mention the free speech aspect (mostly in cartoons, usually fairly obliquely) to be fair. I'd say there's something every couple of issues.

Dramatico · 25/08/2023 12:09

Ultimately, men don't even really care that 2-3 women per week are murdered by their partner* - so it should not be surprising that they seen trans as a niche issue which affects hardly anything.

*We can bet our bottom dollar that if 2 - 3 men per week were being murdered by ANYTHING, the country would come to a stop and politicians would work on nothing else until it was fixed.

sawdustformypony · 25/08/2023 12:14

I can't tell you the number of men who just don't "get it

Can't or won't ?

ResisterRex · 25/08/2023 12:22

This is the kind of institutional corruption that belongs in PE:

x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1694963914579095982?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0L

RealityFan · 25/08/2023 12:26

sawdustformypony · 25/08/2023 12:14

I can't tell you the number of men who just don't "get it

Can't or won't ?

You're misunderstanding me, "...can't tell..." is a euphemism for so large, you can't even count the number.

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