Iain MacWhirther in the Times Scotland Today

[Igneococcus]

"Labour is desperately backtracking from this self-ID mess"

He isn't really saying anything new I think but he is saying it very clearly.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dfba5954-3f60-11ee-bbc9-3b59a60ab59b?shareToken=e14756ccbafad936878f950e8baf1511

Agreed - a very clear article. And excellent comments below.

Thank you for the share token. It is an excellent article, very clear.

What a great article. Even the BBC and Guardian will have to start reporting this properly soon. The slight shift (from nothing at all to just about a teeny bit more than lip-service) on the cancelled Glinner gig was a reasonable start but they have a lot of ground to make up quickly if they want to stay relevant to the masses. Many of the masses have already walked away from them but there will be a tipping point when they realise they need to change their editorial stance.

The uncancelling (is this a word?!) of Helen Joyce on the BBC would be a good milestone to see.

Yes, thank you. This bit at the end intrigued me

That shameful censorship lingers at the Edinburgh festival, as we saw last week. Graham Linehan was banned from successive Fringe venues because of his adherence to human biology. He finally managed to stage his show outside the Scottish parliament. All credit to Holyrood for dismissing cancel culture and upholding the founding principle of the Scottish Enlightenment: freedom of speech.

Was permission needed or sought for Comedy Unleashed to rock up there? I wondered they'd probably thought 'fuck it, let's do the show right here', and Holyrood/Police Scotland were too aware of the optics to stop them.

There is no need to seek permission! I thought putting Linehan outside Holyrood just showed them what the Enlightenment actually means!

Yeah, I think Iain MacWhirter is giving Holyrood credit that they don't deserve.

'The absurdity of self-ID should have been obvious to anyone.' - indeed.

I do a bit resent the suggestion that nobody noticed or made a fuss until Isla Bryson appeared.

Women have been shouting themselves hoarse, putting their livelihoods, reputations and safety on the line for the past few years. Just that nobody was bloody listening til Isla showcased the problem clearly, in pink lycra.

Perhaps I'm being generous here, however I took that as part of offering a golden bridge to the newly horrified who can no longer pretend that be kind has consequences for everyone.

@IcakethereforeIam I suspect that it was a poorly written sarcastic barb

Ffs that should say, doesn't have consequences for everyone

I think this is an article written by someone who has come late to the issue and doesn't really understand.

And hasn't mentioned that an article like this would not be published in most other newspapers.

Its great that the Times gets a range of people to write on this, but effectively it is an echo chamber for their readers, who aren't the ones who need to have their acceptance of the trans agenda challenged.

I think Iain McWhirter needs to read Andrew Neil's article of 1st August.

Jesus christ the pink lycra I will never un-see that image ever .

The absurdity of self-ID should have been obvious to anyone.

<Coughs>. Yes mate, I do wonder why nobody ever brought it up before you came along.

He says that Starmer has changed his stance after “a brief period of woke confusion”. It wasn’t brief, it lasted for some years! And it wasn’t confusion either.

I don't know that Starmer has changed his stance either. He's still flip-flopping like a landed haddock.

(cough) Rutherglen (cough)

Yes, the only change in his stance is from full on TRA to flip flop weasel.

I am normally royally clueless about the implications of this sort of shit and I spotted it bloody years ago. All it entailed was a few seconds' thought about loopholes and the sort of people who like them, even before getting on to other stuff like sport.

Keir Starmer is now the least trustworthy man in British politics
There is seemingly no issue the Labour leader can’t find a way to flip-flop on

He now appears to be engaging in the bizarre process of reversing his reverse ferret. At an event in Rutherglen last week, Sir Keir said that he would not have blocked Sturgeon’s proposals, accusing government ministers of misusing their powers under devolution. The millions of women who wanted to vote Labour but felt unable to do so because of his support for this noxious, morally offensive policy will once again be seething.

They will not, however, be surprised. Starmer has accumulated more U-turns than a driving instructor. Just think about his promise to abolish tuition fees – clearly unfeasible and foolish, but still a pledge that appealed to Left-wing voters and pacified the left of his party.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/19/keir-starmer-is-now-the-least-trustworthy-man-in-british-po/

Not posting this because I agree with it (which I might) but in fact the journalists can turn out copy to suit their editor.

Maybe if newspapers published "news" which wouldn't be drowning in this deluge of verbage which has much more to do with writer's showing off to each other than actually reporting.

As said so many times on FWR, having sympathy for those with gender dysphoria doesn't mean you then disengage your brain when seeing some evidence of something that has gone far beyond helping people to be at ease with themselves.

(As said before above article can be read by going to archive.ph and pasting in Telegraph link above)

It's an interesting article for what it omits. I wouldn't be seething.

I am however not shocked by a politician telling a group of people he has to influence that he would not do the same as the Tory Party. Given their popularity in Scotland I imagine he was advised that he should communicate that he is respectful of devolution if not the SNP.

It's fine to be angry at Labour for their stance on self ID but Starmer is a politician. He seems to be acting politically.

He seems to be acting politically.

You mean like Boris acted politically. You lie and promise things you cant ever achieve just to get into power.

And if that is the case what reason to voters have to vote for anyone if the political promises are meaningless.

Cant we just vote for civil servants to do their jobs and get rid of politicians.

Then we can have a national AGM each year. Assess progress by different departments and allocate budgets accordingly.

Seems that politicians are the problem. As is news reporting.

We should accept news papers are no longer news papers and just have a fact checker report each day and agree that the rest are just comics.

The newspapers are full of political press releases or political briefings barely adjusted. This article is one of them. And it's been going on for years.

And it's been going on for years.

And look where its got us.

Your complacency about politicians being two face and news papers writing rubbish is extraordinary.

These are the very elements that have allowed women to be ignored, erased, bullied and worse.

Why bother with anything.

How silly of women to even begin to think they should challenge the male way of life!

In fact how silly of any of us to bother with a forum called Feminism and Women's Rights.

It's not complacency- it's reality. And it's something all parties do. For decades.

There are some people on this board who are so angry about Labour that they are prepared to read the Telegraph and an attack piece without taking in the wider context. I know when I point this out it gets me grief, but Labour are twenty points ahead. Among women, they have an even greater share of the vote based on the current polling.

That is not silly. It says "Labour Government". So criticize Starmer for being weak on self ID, okay, but he's looking and acting like someone who is going to be PM.

Give it another six months and Starmer will have mostly adopted anything Kemi Badenoch proposes. Because he's a politician he will probably rebadge it.

Yep, Labour ahead by 20 points with men, and 30 with women.

Starmer will live to regret any move to reverse ferret on his reverse ferret on Self ID when he wins in 2024. Those millions of women will eat him for breakfast if he tries to sell their rights to men.