Autistic teen and pronouns

[Badgaston]

My dd is 14 and autistic (she’s also got adhd). Very gender critical household, older dd is also GC. I’m very GC and have always encouraged playing with all types of toys when the kids were growing up, they’d be dressed in all sorts of clothes, encouraged to try anything they’d like to. DD 14 has come out and said she’d like to use they/them pronouns. She hates having breasts and periods. We’ve had lots of discussions around how she’s female and that will never change that and yes periods are annoying but she’s adamant that she feels happier being they/them. She’s also talked about breast surgery when she’s older (she’s roughly a C cup now).

I’m unsure whether to do anything. I won’t be using they/them when she’s not around anyway. Part of it I feel is she’s expressed how she finds being autistic very hard so I feel it’s a bit of a way of coping with that.

Excellent responses AllProperTeaIsTheft & Hepwo. The continual bullying of parents into abandon safeguarding their children and demanding they adopt a frankly dangerous set of beliefs that changing sex is possible is depressing.

@cheesefortea1, what does growing up non binary actually mean? I have other girls as well and have always encouraged them to wear what they want, partake in whatever interest they want and told them that girls have the ability to do whatever they want to do.

I don’t misgender her when she’s around as I’ll use her name.

I don’t want to damage our relationship so I’ve told her I’ll accept whatever pronouns she chooses to use. But she’s very aware I’m very gender critical. I’m also very protective of her because she’s autistic and because I’m aware of the stats now about autistic girls and the non-binary/transgender and how it seems very common.

I call our local vicar Reverend [first name], rather than just [first name]. She knows I'm an atheist and that I don't actually revere God. She also doesn't compel me to use her preferred title and happily answers to her first name without it.

But Reverend is a job title, not a pronoun.

Did anyone expect Pi to understand?

I’m going to leave you all to it. I don’t want to derail a thread that otherwise has some good advice - and frankly I’m not going to change anyone’s view here.

Best wishes to you and your child, OP - I hope it gets easier for them.

You shouldn't be trying to either, because what you are doing is unethical, unwanted and far beyond your understanding and control.

If you find yourself to be struggling to defend your position, maybe take some time to consider it some more.

So much naivety in your post. Can you not remember being 14? Have you not got children yourself. It would be tempting to say, "I hope not"?

Your persepctive is entirely predicated on buying wholesale into gender identity theory. Perhaps that is because you yourself have come of age during the time it has been trending - and so tend to view everything through that narrow lens? Your negative, judgmental comments are not in the least bit helpful.

You are clearly not a parent.

I sometimes think what some fictitious feminist who fell into coma in the early 1990s and woke up today would think of this New World where not complying with gender stereotypes doesn't make a woman quite probably a feminist, but something else than a woman. This truly is not a progressive change.

The nonbinary category assigns all women who don't transition the presumed acceptance of sexist feminine stereotypes. This is not going to make feminism at all easy.

You may have misunderstood me. OP has been clearly able to articulate herself, I was thinking more of those who have had to leave the thread because they weren't winning people round with their ill thought through argument.

👌

When is this ridiculous, life messing-up trend going to end??? Ffs

Having worked in SEN education for many years, it is genuinely terrifying how common this is and how much the education authorities enable this.

Have the school accepted the pronoun request?

School have accepted the pronoun request. They’ve got a teacher who goes by they/them as well. It’s still very much an issue as DC will correct our language. Eldest sibling is also GC so they’re at loggerheads over it. I’m hoping it’ll fade out. I veer between asking why they want to use the pronouns and saying all women are different and just going along with it so she doesn’t feel isolated.

I also believe that someone’s gender identity is not something you can influence. Denying it will help no one.

Which directly goes against the reports of many detransitioners who describe being influenced by online communities into becoming trans in the first place.

Were you able to talk to the schools about this Badgaston? Because it matters whether their agreement about pronouns is just a strategic agreement that panders to a child's demands but doesn't actively promote "born in a wrong body" ideology and whether they're acting in support of or against your parental wishes?
Stephanie Davies Arai has written an excellent piece about schools and their open undermining of safeguarding children when they push mythical gender ideology at children which is useful to share with them:
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-government-needs-to-put-safeguarding-first/

Genspect have also produced a useful tool for parents to use to assess how dangerous their child's school might be in pushing the "born in the wrong body" fantasy at children:

https://sex-matters.org/take-action/school-check/

My sister was like that. Wanted to dress and have haircuts ‘like a boy’. Wanted ‘boys toys’. Our parents gave her what she wanted, and let her get on with it.

She is gay, and it gives me the rage that nowadays she’d have teachers and social media declaring she is ‘in the wrong body’, medicalised and surgically changed, and she’d be in a sorry state physically and mentally (she is pushing 60 now and perfectly happy - even wears a dress a kit once every 2 years!).

She is pretty angry about the ‘fashion’ and elimination of gay kids. She used to snort at me but now she is seeing it.

It’s laughable the idea that this is a brave thing to come out as they/them….clearly not been around teens at the moment! About 40% of them are playing with their pronouns. So bog of with this idea that it is some brave coming out scenario. This only feeds into the ‘look I’m so special’ narrative that is causing so much trouble.

OP - sounds as if you’ve had some really sensible conversations. I would also suggest that don’t forget to just have some downtime from the serious stuff with your DD occasionally- watch a film, bake a cake - whatever floats both your boats. Strive to have some connection and these conversations will come easier.

Sorry first paragraph not aimed at op

Back in my day tribes weee Blur or Oasis, Goth or disco, Debbie Harry or Toyah…

And also pushes the compelled belief that gender identity is an absolute truth.
It's not, it's a belief. Some people believe that everyone has a gender identity (an innate gendered soul) and some people don't believe this.

For those that don't believe in it, as far as I can tell all believe that sex is immutable. It then splits two ways: some (e.g. traditional/religious) believe that people in society should perform certain roles and dress and behave in certain ways based on their sex and others (e.g. liberals/atheists) that people should be free to choose to either fight or embrace the sex-based expectations and limitations that are placed on them from the moment they are born (and that the choices that someone makes in this respect form their personality and how they choose to express themselves through clothing, hair, music etc).

My mum and eldest sister were both very beautiful, feminine and girly women. My other sister was an absolute tomboy and what would be called ‘masculine’. I was very much aware that I was like none of them, and all of them. Never for one nanosecond thought I was ‘special’ or ‘different’. Never felt the need to declare myself ‘other’.

The use of non binary pronouns rumbles on. School don’t seem to actively be promoting any of the born in the wrong body but did mention they have mermaids coming in! This was at an online parents evening so we didn’t get to talk for long and I did say we wouldn’t want our dd involved with that talk. Speech therapist we spoke to is also non binary and declared dd to be very brave taking her first steps - very hard not to eye roll at that one so we’ll be following up as I’m not having her anywhere near mermaids. Where’s the best place to start with why mermaids is awful?

Most of us on here believe in using normal English - not least because it's confusing to many vulnerable groups not to, some because it's all WE can cope with. It is a huge cognitive load to use wrong sex pronouns. It also has safeguarding implications. I will not model to children that they need to lie about the evidence of their senses to placate the feelings of others.

The OP, like me and 99.9% of the population uses sex based pronouns.

You have no clue about parenting if you think giving in to demands from a child that police your actions and speech as an adult is in their best interests. If the child wants to use different pronouns in her speech the OP has said that is fine, however she does not get to dictate what her mother says and does. If she did, it would be very destabilising, children need boundaries (particularly in the teenage years) if they feel they do not have any, even if it's what they say they want, it never ends well in my experience and I work with young people. The parents that give in over and over again, ever time the child pushes, are the ones that have the difficult time. The parents with stronger boundaries have children who do better - children appreciate the consistency and constancy.

Third person pronouns are generally not used when speaking directly to a person so it really shouldn't matter much.

What you are suggesting goes against what the Cass Review says. Why do you think you know better than a highly expert paediatrician? Do you have medical expertise? Social transition is not a neutral act.

Yes, saying 'no' to your child hurts their feelings in the short term. It starts in toddlerhood when they demand you let them eat off the floor like a dog, or that you only feed them ice-cream or that they go outside naked in the winter or let them play in the road. They have screaming meltdowns about how you're ruining their lives and they genuinely feel this and believe it. However, parents on here truly love their children, are the adults primarily responsible for their safeguarding, and know from years of experience that sometimes to ensure the wellbeing of their children they have to accept their children won't like them at times. It's about safeguarding and supporting them, not being liked.