Will women get their sporting records back?

[ZeldaFighter]

Lance Armstrong [was] stripped of his seven consecutive Tour de France titles, along with one Olympic medal, and his eventual admission to using performance-enhancing drugs.

So will trans-identified males who have set records or won prizes lose them?

More and more sports are accepting the science that male-born transgender athletes will beat women athletes.

Anne Andres has just set an unofficial women's powerlifting World record. Will it be allowed to stand?

Probably. Lance Armstrong broke established rules about doping to win the TdF. Unfortunately, the other err...ladies are operating under the rules that currently exist.

It's a worry isn't it because I imagine it'll be difficult for some of these records to be retaken by women. I can imagine it will take a long time for medals to be re-awarded if it does happen especially for women who have lost out on medals due to DSD males in athletic events. I can't see that being made right anytime soon because it's such a political hot potato.

Also I read an article a couple of years ago about Sharron Davies missing out on a gold medal at the Moscow Olympics and there was talk about her being retrospectively awarded a gold medal but AFAIK this hasn't happened yet (or if it did I missed it) and we are 40 + years down the road. I just can't fathom why they don't put these obvious injustices right sooner.

I've seen a couple of recent interviews with Sharron Davies and, if I recall correctly, the East German swimmer who beat her in the Olympic final subsequently met with Sharron and offered to give her the gold medal, as a personal gesture - Sharron didn't take it. But the IOC did, and continue to do, fuck all about it. So no I don't expect anything will be done.

Wondering which events trans have actually won that this would even be a thing? As far as I can see sod all. Drug cheaters however are another thing. Hardly any Olympic trans champions.

Yes sadly I think they'll stand unless and until an actual woman breaks them.

Same for DSD athletes at Rio - they should lose their medals, but on the other hand they were competing within the rules at the time.

I would hope that at some point that all wins and records achieved by men in women's sports will be erased from the books.

It's not going to happen anytime soon though I don't think.

So will we have one, two, or even three generations of girls and woman not being able to beat records set by men before the injustices in the statistics are rectified?

It either gets sorted now or it will be decades before the real winners get their due credit.

You don't have to look very far to see this is "a thing". Try Google. Thankfully sporting bodies are finally starting to see sense so hopefully not too much damage done so far.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12412835/Female-powerlifter-rails-against-trans-competitor-Anne-Andres.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11816651/Record-setting-trans-runner-retires-indefinitely-controversy-victory-female-event.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11816651/Record-setting-trans-runner-retires-indefinitely-controversy-victory-female-event.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12113243/Parkruns-gender-self-ID-lets-men-smash-womens-records-smithereens.html

Read it and weep

@MishyJDI
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Signalbox you have way more kindness and patience than me

Shewon.org symbolically recognizes the true female winners.

Even if it's just a parkrun record it's something stolen from women and should be rectified.

https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/3/1/22948400/transgender-trans-athlete-championship-national-world-title

It could be done, I think. I would argue for it like this:

The rules allow/used to allow males to compete in various women's sports if they fulfilled special eligibility criteria. So you could say that they did not compete as women, but as males with a special dispensation to compete in the female category. Hence their records are asterisked. Decades ago, athletes ran distances in yards. Results from that time are asterisked. Records set in running with the assistance of a following wind which is greater than a certain speed are asterisked. There are other examples. The same principle could apply to results of competitions and "records" set by males in women's sport. Women and girls would get back realistic targets and the authorities would not lose face by having to admit how utterly wrong they were.

Reminds me of the good old days of the Eastern European female athlete drugging days when women jagged on steroids were obvious on swimming and athletics and everyone pretended not to notice 🙄.

It took many years (and so many of those women had their bodies destroyed) before it was admitted.

Although Armstrong has been stripped of his titles, the riders who came second haven't technically been awarded the prize as far as I'm aware. Bluntly pretty much all of them were on drugs; Armstrong was just particularly skilled at it. It's just skirted awkwardly around in Tour De France coverage.

I'm guessing other sporting bodies would prefer to pretend it's not really a problem, or that it never happened.

Having read Sharon Davies’ book I’m doubtful it will happen. Lance Armstrong is a man and their competitions are treated entirely differently.
You’ve had East Germans admit and been found guilty surrounding the testosterone girls were given but it was deemed too complicated to change records etc. And that’s a case where the athletes admit they won unfairly. The men who won women’s races won’t even do that.

This seems pertinent to this thread…

“The Namibian had catapulted herself into the global athletics consciousness when breaking the 400m world under-20 record in 2021, before doing the same in the 200m a few months later to win an eye-catching Olympic silver in Tokyo. There seemed to be no stopping the teenager who was able to run so fast with such a ruggedly raw technique. But then World Athletics did.”

“I can say I have been taking the [testosterone-lowering] medication and it’s had no impact. I know I can run as fast as before even with it. The way I’m training, I’m OK. I feel confident.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/aug/17/i-know-i-can-run-as-fast-christine-mboma-on-the-medical-minefield-of-world-athletics-dsd-ruling

There's a thread on that article.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4874706-guardian-interview-christine-mboma

But yes, the Olympics are less than 12 months away and urgent action is required from World Athletics to prevent more women's medals and records going to male athletes. Continuing to allow male athletes with DSDs to compete with women was a mistake.

Whilst I would like the true winners to be recognised whether they've been denied by drug cheats or gender ideology, its so much more than getting the medal.

Using Lance Armstrong as an example - look at all the books, sponsorship and other opportunities that came with winning. The medal of win was just the start.
I'm pretty sure I read that less than 10% of sports sponsorship goes to women - and most of that will go to women who win. Then if they are denied a win the chance of sponsorship diminishes further and making a living from sport becomes even harder.

Sharron Davies says 1% Sponsorship and 4% airtime.

It's not just about champions or medals. It's about having the chance to make a final, make the championships at all.

And it affects grassroots eg at parkrun. Why would a good female athlete want to achieve a womens' course record if she knows a bloke can come along and beat it the next week.

Sharron Davies says 1% Sponsorship and 4% airtime

Yes. If you are in a supermarket or newsagents tomorrow, have an idle look at the Times sports section. It usually has 16 pages. You'll be lucky if there's more than one page devoted to womens' sport. This weekend might be an outlier - there might be a double page spread on the Lionesses. But otherwise, nothing. And that's with the World Athletics Championships starting tomorrow too with lots of good female athletes competing. You'd think women didn't buy or read newspapers/websites.

That sounds like a good solution. And TRAs cannot say it’s transphobic because it’s not something new that is specifically for trans-athletes. And it would help natal women be able to reclaim their records.