Page 2 | Canadian professor advocates exposing kids to adult genitals

dimorphism · 03/08/2023 16:15

People in positions of power like academics really need to be called out for suggesting things that are so contrary to what experts in safeguarding call for. Does this person know anything about child safeguarding? Obviously not, so why can they pontificate about it in such a dangerous way.

IWillNoLie · 03/08/2023 16:19

Let’s get girls used to men exposing their penis to them.

Let’s get them used to men wearing provocative clothing and making sexualised gestures
Let’s have school talk about men’s sexual fetishes to small girls
Let’s tell them it is ok to keep secrets
Let’s tell them they must be kind to grown men who want something
Let’s tell them it is transphobic and the police will tell you off if you call a man a man
Let’s tell them it is transphobic to not get undressed in front of a man in the ladies changing room.
Let’s break down society’s norms around age of consent…

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/08/2023 16:22

What’s . with all . the full.stops?

Is she gasping for breath between each word?

BTW, Riley’s very tall swim partner has some interesting excursions on social media, I gather.

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

loislovesstewie · 03/08/2023 16:36

Yes, my thought was John Money and look what happened there.

AnSolas · 03/08/2023 16:37

“Hey, want to know one of my all time excellent parenting ideas? Let. Little. Girls. See. Penises. And. Vulvas. Of. Various. Ages. And. Sizes.
a girl should be told it is ok for a bloke to choose go into a room with her and expect her to get undressed in front of him
In. A. Casual. Normalized. Totally. Safe. Way. she will thank you for it. And so will she when she grows up,”

“Just imagine if the little girls‘ of this society could totally go into a room with him and get undressed in front of him and not react at the sight of a male dick. And just imagine if the little girls’ parents were like, yeah, that happens, it’s okay, now let’s talk about your upcoming training schedule.”

Funny idea is that

Froodwithatowel · 03/08/2023 16:40

There's people wanking away on philosophical batshit who have lost all contact with reality and common sense, and then there's this.

Someone go and check the hard drive please, this person has a serious problem and no self awareness of any kind. Normal people don't think about this kind of thing, never mind try to advocate for it.

Blatantlyfemale · 03/08/2023 17:00

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

A man demanding access to a women's single sex space , requiring that unconsenting women have to undress in front of him, and the adults telling women they have to or they will lose their team places, is not a normalised way though.

You can surely see that?

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 03/08/2023 17:01

So on one hand this person says we should all be OK with kids seeing other people's genitals (both sexes) and having their genitals seen by other people (both sexes). On the other hand we have organisations like NSPCC saying that children need to be taught that private parts are private, PANTS rule and all that.

Layofftheeyecontact · 03/08/2023 17:05

Just because she has some kind of degree and /or diploma from somewhere doesn't mean she isn't a complete nonce.

loislovesstewie · 03/08/2023 17:26

BTW, I knew a couple of blokes who took great pleasure in telling me they were naturists . My antennae told me they were both pervy when I overheard their very graphic descriptions of other attendees. Insisting something is 'healthy' doesn't make it so.

Clymene · 03/08/2023 17:35

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

I've said this before but my best friend when I was a teenager grew up with parents who took her and her siblings on naturist holidays. They hated them.

RoseslnTheHospital · 03/08/2023 17:39

@exnaturist and are your children also naturists now too?

A private naturist gathering is not the same as women and girls being told they must accept naked men being around them when they don't want that. I don't want it to be normal that an adult man could walk naked into a changing room of teenage girls and no one object to it, for any reason.

Pallisers · 03/08/2023 17:45

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

that's lovely. What on earth does it have to do with men exposing their genitals in a women's changing room?

Froodwithatowel · 03/08/2023 17:46

Try unpacking this a little.

Expose kids to genitals. A lot. Teach them it's normal for people to expose their genitals to them.

So they won't fuss and kick off and make it difficult for men to use them in their sexual exploits in women's spaces.

Ffs, how obvious do some people need this to get?!

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 03/08/2023 18:40

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

Key here is that it was a naturist club so the expectation of nudity in a mixed sex scenario was set and you knew the people there.

That is very different to a female changing room where the expectation is that only female naked bodies will be present, and any bloke off the street being able to walk in and see you naked or expose you to their nakedness.

Can you understand that those are different scenarios, different expectations and that some women may be uncomfortable with that?

Musomama1 · 03/08/2023 19:13

Igneococcus · 03/08/2023 08:23

I'm German, I've used changing rooms and showers with my male friends when I played mixed Volleyball and didn't mind that at all, but they were my friends and it was before mobile phones and they would have respected it if I would have wanted a changing room for myself (and vice versa). It's important to have the choice and not being guilt-tripped into it. At the big outdoor tournaments that happen throughout the summer in central Europe there were always some changing rooms/showers which were kept strictly females only, usually by the Italian female players but not only them.
My nieces (35 and 31) seem to be a lot less comfortable or prepared with sharing changing rooms with males than I was but I think the fact that there are phones with cameras everywhere has a lot to do with this.

I'm a musician and I've had to share dressing rooms with my band mates who have almost always been male.

In 20 years I have almost always changed elsewhere (usually the loo - at one regular gig, the tech crew would kindly clear out of their room for me) and some of these male bandmates were and still are dear friends of mine.

Even if a facility is mixed sex and even if you know the men in there, someone like me will instinctively feel it isn't right for them.

HermioneWeasley · 03/08/2023 19:24

It’s grooming in plain sight. Not even subtle. But being Canada she won’t be arrested.

Joey2323 · 03/08/2023 19:34

greenspaces4peace · 03/08/2023 04:56

it's one thing for small children to watch their sisters or brothers get a diaper change, to walk in while mum or dad are using the toilet or showering.
for grand kids to go to the swimming pool and see naked people while accompanied.
younger boys do go into public washrooms and probably side eye someone at a urinal.
i'd say it's probably a good thing at a certain appropriate age to have witnessed some nakedness, especially in light that the youth body changes and you need to prepare yourself/your child for eventual bodily development.
perverted exhibitionism no

This 100%.

Igneococcus · 03/08/2023 20:00

@Musomama1
I was responding to a poster who said nudity might be normal for Katja Thieme because she is German, and I don't think that this idea that all Germans are happy to be nude in public is correct. It's more common than in the UK but it is by far not universal. I never minded within a group of friends but I wouldn't have wanted some random guy I didn't know well to come into a changing room or toilet. I know a lot of German women and men who wouldn't like it. I bet my sister never showered with the men in her various sports teams, same for most of my cousins.
I have also never seen one of those mixed sex toilets that are supposedly common in Germany, not in the bits of Germany I know.

UBCnamechange · 03/08/2023 21:24

Igneococcus · 03/08/2023 20:00

@Musomama1
I was responding to a poster who said nudity might be normal for Katja Thieme because she is German, and I don't think that this idea that all Germans are happy to be nude in public is correct. It's more common than in the UK but it is by far not universal. I never minded within a group of friends but I wouldn't have wanted some random guy I didn't know well to come into a changing room or toilet. I know a lot of German women and men who wouldn't like it. I bet my sister never showered with the men in her various sports teams, same for most of my cousins.
I have also never seen one of those mixed sex toilets that are supposedly common in Germany, not in the bits of Germany I know.

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that all Germans are nudists! It was interesting to read about your perspective on this as a German woman. (I'm Canadian, and nudism is not at all popular here.)

I only intended to consider if there might be some reason why she thought that exposing children to nudity was good parenting advice, and wondered if it might be a cultural difference. But of course it doesn't excuse her being horrible about women and girls who are fighting for female-only changing facilities and sports.

Btw the poster who said that UBC is full of crackpots is absolutely correct.

Igneococcus · 03/08/2023 22:10

@UBCnamechange
I think there are big differences throughout Germany wrt public nudity, geographically and demographically. It will be very different in big cities (especially at universities) compared to more rural areas. And it's not very popular within younger generations either, possibly down to phones with cameras. On a recent visit, I was walking along the riverbank where a lot of people walk, run, cycle, have picnics, sit and read or talk and I didn't see a single naked or semi-naked person despite it being pleasantly warm. Even in Munich, which is kind of infamous for its naked sunbathers ("Nackerte" in Bavarian) in the park and along the Isar, I barely saw any, not compared to 30 years ago.

aloris · 03/08/2023 22:25

exnaturist · 03/08/2023 16:29

Oh dear, so much panic at the thought of seeing a naked body in a normalised way. I used to take my children to a naturist club on a regular basis. We knew the people there and they knew us. My children (now both adults) grew up seeing the naked body in all shapes, sizes and ages. As adults they have not grown up seeing nothing but the airbrushed versions in internet porn, and yes, teenage boys will look whatever you may think. They are now adults with no paranoid worries about their own bodies. They know that normal comes in a very wide variety of guises. They do not expect their partners to have unnatural silicon boobs either.

You are fortunate that this risky approach worked out ok for your children, but as a thing to be normalized for little kids in society, no. Basic principle of safeguarding. It would be like saying, well my kids never wore seatbelts and were not killed in a car accident, and sometimes kids wear seatbelts and die in car accidents anyway. You got lucky, but you removed a significant layer of protection and you added significant risk. To what end? Did the fact that your children became comfortable with different naked bodies add so much benefit to their life that it justified the massive risk you took with their safety? And should other parents be forced, by law, to take that same risk with their young children's safety so that adult men can feel validated? Again, no. It's wrong.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/08/2023 22:29

UBCnamechange · 03/08/2023 05:20

I am at the same university, and I've briefly come across Katja. I don't know her well at all, but OP, you asked about her motivation: Katja goes by "she/they", which I think explains it.

Possibly another contributing factor is that she is from Germany, and nudism is fairly popular in Germany. Not to stereotype Germans, but I wondered if perhaps she herself was raised by nudists and thinks that her childhood experience is/should be normal? ...that's the only charitable explanation that comes to mind.

Yes, I think she is referring to nonsexualised nudity like you experience at naturist holiday camp sites all over mainland Europe. I do recall as a child many naked holidays in the south of france and there were more Germans than any other nationality where we went. You got used to seeing naked bodies of all ages, everywhere just doing normal things.

I don’t think she meant it in the pedophile grooming context some think it is meant.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/08/2023 22:31

aloris · 03/08/2023 22:25

You are fortunate that this risky approach worked out ok for your children, but as a thing to be normalized for little kids in society, no. Basic principle of safeguarding. It would be like saying, well my kids never wore seatbelts and were not killed in a car accident, and sometimes kids wear seatbelts and die in car accidents anyway. You got lucky, but you removed a significant layer of protection and you added significant risk. To what end? Did the fact that your children became comfortable with different naked bodies add so much benefit to their life that it justified the massive risk you took with their safety? And should other parents be forced, by law, to take that same risk with their young children's safety so that adult men can feel validated? Again, no. It's wrong.

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Risk? Care to provide evidence of this safety risk?
after all it’s well evidenced that not wearing a seatbelt is risky, but I’ve not heard or seen of any evidence that a naturist upbringing is risky to children?