Nancy Kelly (Stonewall) responds to Labour's u-turn on self ID

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Quite an interesting tweet from Nancy Kelly, as she is probably privy to information that has informed Labour's change of heart.
She blames the Labour Party's attitude to Northerners it seems they view as particularly against gender ideology and Labour hopes to win them back.
She conveniently merges homophobia with the backlash against trans ideology, easier to find an open homophobe in London than in my hometown of Grimsby -that may be true I don't know, but I bet a lot of women in Grimsby are against transing children and for women only sport etc. The law changes were nothing to do with the LGB and all about the T.

Her quote in full:

The political class in Westminster typically holds hard to the belief that homophobic, biphobic and transphobic policy and dogwhistles win them votes in the North.
It's a belief based on class prejudice, not data. London is *dramatically more religious than other parts of the UK, and this makes a huge difference in attitudes to LGBTQ+ communities. Easier to find an open homophobe in London than in my hometown of Grimsby these days.

Amongst the politicos who understand this, a more depressing set of factors are at play, ones which do implicate the electorate. LGBTQ+ rights are a "low salience" issue for the vast majority of voters.

Which is to say, most voters who think that both Labour and Conservative policies and rhetoric on trans rights are wrong, will still vote Lab/Con because of other issues they view as much more important.This behaviour frees up parties to take the risk of pandering to the minority of voters for whom trans rights are very high salience. Transphobic voters, and voters radicalised by the endless firehouse of transphobic UK press.
And that's on all of us. If we don't make it crystal clear that inclusive policies upholding international human rights standards are *essential to getting our vote, then political parties are free to flirt with or openly adopt the politics of exclusion and "culture wars". So (emoji -what can you do?)

https://twitter.com/Nancy_M_K

I don't suppose you have a share token for this do you please?

I am going to steal this

Women are emotional (except in the aggressive north), says therapists’ body

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/716d1408-aec6-11e8-a225-46081b2ac219?shareToken=8596f52827e9d08b97a9a9ce0a710616

Share for that BACP story

😆

So all these religious Londoners. Would they be mostly people from ethnic minorities, I'm guessing?

Sounds a bit racist to me, Nancy.

I can't claim credit for Assigned Northern At Birth, sadly.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

*cackle

Nancy has a real gift for race relations, what with previously equating trans identified males with black women and now this.

Well, it’s not Hinduism as far as I can see.

Hm. So which religions is she claiming are homophobic? It would be good if she would spell it out.

She's also assuming that most people ( those that aren't the northern bigots of imagination) are in favour of males in women's spaces and the transing of children. It's only thick people, religious people and racist people ( the sort that might vote Conservative for the first time because they want Brexit) who don't.

Yeah, if it was a conservative that said that, they would probably be jumped on for using a "racist dog whistle".

That's not to say it would be correct, but that's the game that progressives play.

I don't know if she is correct about these "international human rights standards", but if she is correct, then I do know that progressives invented them 5 minutes ago without any evidence.

And that's like trying to impose Biblical morality on everyone else because you think "God said it".

I’m willing to bet Nancy hasn’t been out in Cleethorpes for a while. Last time I was out with my gay friend, there was a big gang of lads talking about smacking gay boy poofters about. I went to school with Nancy and we all hung out with punks,goths and hippies, and we were a pretty tolerant bunch. I don’t think she ever really mixed with many “dressers”, as we called them at the time, and I’m very dubious she has any kind of special insight into the views and opinions of the local populace.

I'd pay good money to watch that interview.

Funny - though not really, more typical - that the issue is posed as homophobia.

Is it part of Stonewall training that you never ever mention women, that no reference must be made to women having rights, and most of all never make any reference to women being able to think for themselves.

And irrespective of whether political parties think in cliched ways (more likely the stupid briefing papers drawn up by immature graduates who have no experience of real life) about different regions in the UK and religions, I am convinced that women in the north and women in London resent having their rights ignored at the expense of an unrepresentative and disparate grouping of people.

Most of the UK is not alienated by people who are same sex attraced but the Rainbow coalition approach means that this change in attitudes is not acknowledged.

So yet again Stonewall is stopping open and honest discussion by hijacking those who are same sex attracted to be the cover for a very different grouping of peope. ie being intersex has nothing to do with being gay or lesbian or being trans. And ditto all the other being forced under the umbrella.

I don’t know whether the homophobia is worse in London or Grimsby. What I do know is that even though most people have moved on it still exists in shocking and hateful forms in all kinds of places. Yesterday a friend posted a picture of some graffiti in her northern seaside town calling for a genocide of ‘faggots.’

I also know that if Stonewall had been doing the job it was set up for we would have a much better idea about all of this because they would have used their considerable budget to commission research and raise awareness about homophobia rather than campaigning for people to say men are women and muddying the waters by calling them phobic when they refuse.

So her dual claim is that (1) There is no evidence that attitudes towards transgender issues correlate with distance from the equator; (2) Nonetheless, the policy change is a calculated attempt to win votes in the north.

Surely (1) makes (2) extremely unlikely? Unless she really does believe that those pesky Westminster elites would rather lose an election than base their U-turns on the actual demographic research they for-some-reason commission.

Nancy can only ever identify as northern, anyhow, coming from that funny place south of the Humber.

We need to know the impact of longitude too. You are more likely to see a gay couple holding hands in Sheffield than in Durham, but it would be rash to assume this was down to the north/south divide rather than some east/west polarity.

I'm sure someone, somewhere is writing a phD on it.

Billy Elliot was set in the North and intended to show that it would not be easy to be a ballet dancer (too effeminate/gay seeming) there.

The detransitioner currently suing the NHS for hurrying him through surgeries, instead of letting him just carry on with counselling, now knows he was just gay but found it difficult to express this in his original community (Northern).

I think it really unlikely that cosmopolitan London, Brighton, Bristol, or New Agey Wales and Somerset, are less open to Gay or Trans people than ordinary Northerners.

Wow. That really shows the sexist shit you have to fall back on when you can’t define women and men as adult human females and males.

And that substance-less, evidence-free accusation and name calling from Nancy Kelly reminds me of my abusive Ex. That was exactly his tactic too.

I don’t know whether the homophobia is worse in London or Grimsby. What I do know is that even though most people have moved on it still exists in shocking and hateful forms in all kinds of places. Yesterday a friend posted a picture of some graffiti in her northern seaside town calling for a genocide of ‘faggots.’

Unfortunately I think there has been an increase in public displays of homophobia, and sadly I think this is because of how gay men and lesbians are constantly being packaged by both SM and MSM as just being part of the rainbow umbrella.

And by implication are thought ( by some) part of the more fetishistic displays at Pride marches and also the dreaded drag queen story hour.

So all the years of campaigning and out reach that Gay Liberation and the early days of Pride did to get people to accept that just because someone was in a same sex relationship it didn't mean they were any different from most of society, ie were going to work, coming home for tea / supper / dinner, going to the supermarket at weekends, saving up for a summer holiday. ie the whole point of the early Pride marches was in fact to see for instance people in military uniform or nurses in their scrubs, just ordinary people marching to stand up for their right to be same sex attracted.

But once Stonewall included the T and queer politics became the driving force, a very different public presentation of being gay or lesbian was presented. Even though it wasn't in fact representative a small group have been able to take over Pride and present it as fetishistic. One of the many reasons why LGB Alliance is so important, and also the Lesbian Alliance.

Then because people have justifiably demonstrated against drag queen story hour, whether for feminist or parental reasons, but Stonewall say they are part of the rainbow tribe, this has opened the door for those who want to infer that drag queen story hour represents homosexuality. Which the right wing have done as they have always had the narrative that all homosexuals are paedophiles. (And of course the left then says because right wingers are attacking it, if you too say you dont support DQSH, you too are a right winger.)

So I think it is highly likely that this has created an atmosphere where people who previously wouldn't have been bothered either way about someone being gay now feel they can say it isn't right.

Not helped by the trans agenda that is encouraging the NHS to be homophobic as it were. ie the implication to young people that if they dont feel comfortable in the way society is tells them is normal, including heterosexuality, then instead of positively affirming the possibililty of being homosexual, instead sets them on the path to transing.

Maybe if it was such a problem you could have a charity designed to promote the acceptance of gay and lesbian people all over the country, if the North is so ignorant.

Maybe we could name it after those characterful stone walls you find there...

Nancy, you idiot. That was your job. Get back to Grimsby and do the work if it bothers you so much