Kemi Badenoch: Diversity obsession has led to Kafkaesque madness (KB for PM?)

[IwantToRetire]

Another really straightforwarded down to earth practical commentary of where chasing the rainbow has led us. And ideas on how Government cant, without being dictatorial help solve the mess.

The root of the problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Equality Act 2010, often exploited by those with a separate agenda. The Equality Act is a shield, not a sword. It is about preventing discrimination, not social engineering. There are no protected groups in the act, only protected characteristics. A white man is just as protected on the characteristics of race and sex as a black woman, yet many believe the act is there just to protect minorities, when in reality it protects us all.

Many companies’ diversity and inclusion activities are falling foul of the law; for example by confusing legal positive action and positive discrimination, which is illegal — except when selecting political candidates (a handy get-out-clause Labour devised to use all-women shortlists). Encouraging people from underrepresented backgrounds to apply for a job or go for a promotion is positive action, and legal. Restricting applications for a position to a certain group is positive discrimination and most certainly isn’t. This has led to increasing calls for the Equality Act to be scrapped. The act is 13 years old and could be improved but the issue is not the law. It’s bad actors misrepresenting it to suit their agenda.

Many of these laws were written at a time when institutions knew how to self-regulate. Someone proposing a terrible idea would be checked by colleagues in the organisation. Today, those colleagues are scared of being called bigots for disagreeing, so they say nothing. What the Farage and Sawers cases have done is show that this problem is getting worse. Long-held tenets of liberal democracy — freedom of association, freedom of conscience, the presumption of innocence — are being tossed aside in favour of dubious inclusion strategies that themselves fall foul of the law. In some cases they’re cancelling people before any wrongdoing occurs, leaving them with no way to prove their innocence.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kemi-badenoch-banking-scandal-natwest-niigel-farage-wdp3mmq0w
Also available via archive.ph

And your belief is typical leftist claptrap

So yes we disagree.

And it’s thanks to all the GC women who have spoken up that your Labour party is shifting at all.

So yep we get the kudos there. Clearly you’re unable to thank anyone as you’re too blinkered. Fine, it’s working that’s all that matters. We don’t need the Labour cheerleaders to do much, lucky really.

@IwantToRetire - I would you need both. But being in the tent still matters. Once a party is in government it is absolutely essential- particularly if that party had a large majority.

These governments that do have large majorities do not have to engage more widely. They have all the power they need.

There have been a lot of useful legal cases for the GC cause. But they will be of no relevance if the law makers set their own legislation or at a minimum, we will still be having this fight in five years or so.

Sorry, would agree you need both...

What?

Firstly, it isn't "my" Labour Party. I will always vote on the left but I am not particularly wedded to any one party.

Secondly, I have no reason to thank right wing apologists for anything. There are gender critical people across the political spectrum who have spoken out. I'm not sure that there is any evidence that your personal contribution has made any more than mine, but if you have evidence of this, I will happily give you "kudos" for the difference that you have made.

And you can dismiss my view as leftist claptrap if you like, but can you seriously make a case for how things have got better for women under Tory rule?

GC people need to return to the parties they support

This might work for more people, if it was just an isolated thing. But many have had their view of the party, and many of it's core assumptions, really destroyed.

Yes, I would consider all of those that you have mentioned to be pretty far to the right.

As for the usual lazy trope that GCs promote the Alt Right... that isn't quite how I see it. Most of the gender critical people I know are categorically not right wing. However, I do think that the far right have seen can opportunity in the debates over gender issues and they have jumped on that opportunity for their own political purposes.

So imo, it is not so much that GC people are promoting the far right, but rather that the far right are exploiting this issue because they can see that it buys them political advantage. I do not believe that they are pursuing it out of any genuine concern for the rights of women, because the rest of their policies tell me that they don't really give a toss about women.

Yep just come on to this board and do the typical leftist insult.

Meanwhile posters here have altered the landscape. Of course you are so biased all you have in your bag is berating women.

It’s fine we’ll get there without you, even if you don’t take any time to get past prejudice.

FWR had done great stuff. I’m incredibly glad women haven’t been put off by your type of posts. Tg

I absolutely agree that FWR has done some great work over the last few years. It's just a shame that it seems to have been taken over by posters like you who clearly have another agenda.

I have done nothing to berate women. My criticisms are focused purely on people who are using the trans issue very cynically to gain traction for their right wing views. In my experience, that is only a very small but vocal minority of women.

Most women I know in RL manage to be gender critical without becoming cheerleaders for the right wing of the Tory party. I just wish that those women were better represented in these debates, but I guess they are put off by the vocal minority.

I don’t have an ‘agenda’. More clap trap.

Other than to say I find your posts insulting. Typically so.

And I recognise loads of posters so it give up with the ‘taken over’ part.

Lol, I think you do have an agenda. If you didn't, you wouldn't be throwing around the word "leftist" as an insult! And that's fine, you are of course entitled to your agenda.

As for whether the Board has been taken over, there has been a very distinct shift to the right from what I have observed. I used to read so many informative and thought-provoking posts on these threads. I see such posts far less often these days, and far more that are like yours... very bitter towards the left (which I do understand as their collective approach to the trans issue has been dreadful) and much less substance.

Unfortunately, the shift in tone is quite alienating for people who tend to be more moderate and for those who are on the left...people who absolutely share the concerns about gender issues but don't resonate with the right wing cheerleaders and don't want to be associated with them. It makes it so much harder for people to speak out.

It depends, doesn't it - how you define women's rights and protections, and also on whether you just simply categorise anyone who belongs to a different party than yourself as automatically, and necessarily, as bad people who don't care or have concern for others.

That's far too naive and simplistic in my view; although living in a heavily Labour oriented city I'm very familiar with that kind of tribal hatred and see it all of the time. I used to be a Labour party member too - but have since broken free of narrow ideological tribalism and can actually appreciate people of taalent and grasp wherever on the political spectrum they may be. It's been quite liberating, in fact.

To my mind Kemi Badenoch is a huge talent - and is one of the few who actually grasp this issue firmly. She and a few other Tories are actually the only ones to have given any indication that they do undersatnd the issue and who have spiken out on it - apart from Rosie Duffield - a lone voice on the Labour party benches.

Gender ideology and its ramifications is one of the most profoundly misogynistic movements I have ever witnessed - and I don't see any Labour party members recognising that. And it will be the most marginalised women who suffer its worst impacts, as with everything else.

‘Lol’ at you too.

And your agenda is political and to have a go at women for baseless reasons. Just when we’re getting somewhere.

Well done you.

Great contribution.

You either appreciate the importance of this issue or you don't. Perhaps it is simply not that important to you. If you do consider it of fundamental importance, then you will recognise those politicuans who also recognise the issue to be of importance - regardless of their colour or party badge.

What is so wrong with being conservative or right of centre, anyway? What makes being left wing inherently better? They are simply two different ways of viewing the role of government and what it is there to do.

The Left tends always to position itself as morally superior - that goes with the territory.

There's always some Leftists who will cynically co-opt feminist arguments and objectives to push their own agendas. I don't think that anyone who genuinely cares about women could vote for this fundamentally misogynistic movement.

cheerleaders for the right wing of the Tory party

This is deliberate misrepresentation. Pointing out what someone who is part of the current government is saying, is about being aware of who is in power, and how individuals within it might have influence on an issue of concern,

I cant say I read every thread on FWR but when it comes to mainstream politics the resounding majority of posts are mournful if not actual labour left wingers bitterly upset that they have been abandoned as women.

When someone posts something so obviously untrue it just means anything else they say is then taken with a pinch of salt.

And as always if only the so called left would stand up for women, then those on the right who are, wouldn't stand out.

But that is the problem. The failure of the organised left and of course all the left commentators to speak up for women.

What FWR shows is that many contributors are independent thinkers happy to work with and support those who equally support them as women. They certainly dont see themselve as the silent compliant tea makers of a party that is anti woman.

But why not surprise us and we could look forward to threads being set up because of some really interesting examples of a left winger saying anything that approaches support for women's rights.

So sorry, you might think you are making some in depth comment, but it just reads as please dont notice the failure of the left. All you are saying because the left is silent on women's rights but some on the right aren't, we should not acknowledge pro women statements. We should silently and meekly, like Hand Maids, pay due servitude to the misogynist male left. Women know your place. It is at the back of the queue.

Labour are terrifying for womnen and safeguarding. And economically there is very little to chose between them. If Labour get in they'll have to balance the books the same as the Tories so all the things people blame the Tories for they'll be able to blame Labour for instead. It will be little different. It was not last time so I don't know what people are bleating about.

Peronally I can celebrate a succesful woman who might become leader of a poltical party and might be PM who can actually see the probelm in the biggest threat to women's rights in my lifetime.

Once again, I haven't had a go at women. If you are not capable of understanding that not all women are right wing, and that a criticism of the right wing is therefore not an attack on women, I have nothing left to say to you.

You either appreciate the importance of this issue or you don't. Perhaps it is simply not that important to you.

Or perhaps it is, but it is not the only thing that is important to me. I do not understand those who reduce politics to this one single issue as if it is the only thing that matters. Thankfully, I don't think the majority of the electorate look at things that way either.

not all women are right wing

Of course they’re not, not even on FWR which is why I find your insults baseless and superficial.

I have nothing left to say to you.

No issue with that last line, sounds good to me.

Far to the Right is not Far Right. I think you'll find the majority of Brits are Centre Right, which by definition makes anyone to the left in British politics as far Left.

You see how counterproductive playing with semantics is.

I'd actually call Blair Centre Right, that's why he got Labour elected three times. Revert to Left leaders in Brown, Milliband and Corbyn, and Labour were toast.

Starmer, who knows what he is? I don't even think he does.

Disagree with you that Badenoch and Cates are Far Right. Braverman is simply performing a role. Indeed I'd say Left policy on trans and migration is Far Left. Noone from the proud class analysis Left tradition prior to 1990 would have been in favour of open borders for migration, legal or illegal. I'd say the current Tory policy is closer to what the Left would have supported pre-Blair. For me, that makes Braverman Right, not Far Right.

Corbyn and Abbott et al pushing for total open borders had they won in 2019...Far Left.

Oh I have no issue with you acknowledging pro women statements, regardless of whether they come from the left or the right.

What I do have a problem with is the leap from that acknowledge to a statement such as "Kemi for PM". As if the only qualification for being PM is knowing what a woman is. Personally, I want much more than that, and I think Kemi as PM would be dreadful.

I absolutely feel let down by the left on this issue - not just Labour but the Greens and the Libdems too. I am politically homeless and pretty hopeless too. It's just that, unlike many on this thread, I don't see the right wing of the Tory party as offering any kind of positive alternative. For all their rhetoric, their record on women's rights has been abysmal.

The fact is, knowing what a woman is is of very little value if you don't actually give a shit about women anyway. And the Tories have proved again and again that they don't.

And yes, I do speak up as a left wing GC woman, but I know quite a few women on the left who hesitate to do so because the GC position has come to be associated with the right wing and they don't want to be tainted by that. I agree that more need to speak up, and I think a greater diversity of views on threads like this would help empower people to do so. I can see that I am in the minority on this board though, so will bow out now and leave you all to it.

Women don’t owe Labour anything. If they had any sense they might notice women count, but that’s their call.

Those that just see a chance to have a go on FWR aren’t helping.

I’m so glad women have kept at it despite the naysayers. It’s just the beginning but we’re getting there.

You seriously think that things are going to be that differnt under Kier Starmer? Left wing people hate him and see him as a sell out. Labour are committed to the current spending plans and much of what is going on is not purely national in origin - in that most of the issues are topical in all western countries.

Calling people 'right wing apologists' does nothing except to make you feel you are somehow a better or moral person. There is corruption in every political party. In my city the Labour council is so corrupt and so ideologically driven in nonsensical and damaging ways it is now having to be overseen by the government. Labour councillors prioritise their own re-election over their constituents; many are utterly incompetent; two were arrested and still awaiting trial. But hey they are for 'the people' - so none of that matters.

My Labour MP refuses to meet with her constituents on the issue of women's rights and protections. she tells us " you are wasting your time". Labour has people lime Lloyd Rusell Moyle on its benches, and people like Lisa Nandy who have called women's campaign groups 'hate groups'.

That is because most people are not naturally political creatures and tend to focus only on the most immediate issues in their life. However, some people are aware of the deeper, more fundamental issues too -and who recognise that in some ways they are more important because the impact is potentially so profound.

Bread and butter issues are always there; wages rise and fall; inflation goes up and down; and always will. They are temporal - if immediately painful issues.

What do you mean by 'right wing' for a start? Could it be that you mean simply admiring someone who is in the Tory party? What is so evil about Kemi Badenoch or Miriam Cates? To my mind she's/both in fact are impressive performers of great depth, integrity and intellect.