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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kemi Badenoch: Diversity obsession has led to Kafkaesque madness (KB for PM?)

526 replies

IwantToRetire · 30/07/2023 18:17

Another really straightforwarded down to earth practical commentary of where chasing the rainbow has led us. And ideas on how Government cant, without being dictatorial help solve the mess.

The root of the problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Equality Act 2010, often exploited by those with a separate agenda. The Equality Act is a shield, not a sword. It is about preventing discrimination, not social engineering. There are no protected groups in the act, only protected characteristics. A white man is just as protected on the characteristics of race and sex as a black woman, yet many believe the act is there just to protect minorities, when in reality it protects us all.

Many companies’ diversity and inclusion activities are falling foul of the law; for example by confusing legal positive action and positive discrimination, which is illegal — except when selecting political candidates (a handy get-out-clause Labour devised to use all-women shortlists). Encouraging people from underrepresented backgrounds to apply for a job or go for a promotion is positive action, and legal. Restricting applications for a position to a certain group is positive discrimination and most certainly isn’t. This has led to increasing calls for the Equality Act to be scrapped. The act is 13 years old and could be improved but the issue is not the law. It’s bad actors misrepresenting it to suit their agenda.

Many of these laws were written at a time when institutions knew how to self-regulate. Someone proposing a terrible idea would be checked by colleagues in the organisation. Today, those colleagues are scared of being called bigots for disagreeing, so they say nothing. What the Farage and Sawers cases have done is show that this problem is getting worse. Long-held tenets of liberal democracy — freedom of association, freedom of conscience, the presumption of innocence — are being tossed aside in favour of dubious inclusion strategies that themselves fall foul of the law. In some cases they’re cancelling people before any wrongdoing occurs, leaving them with no way to prove their innocence.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kemi-badenoch-banking-scandal-natwest-niigel-farage-wdp3mmq0w
Also available via archive.ph

Kemi Badenoch: Diversity obsession has led to Kafkaesque madness

I became very uneasy reading this month that NatWest Group had closed the account of Professor Lesley Sawers. Why had this accomplished businesswoman, appointed an OBE for services to equalities and business, had her bank account closed after 25 years?...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kemi-badenoch-banking-scandal-natwest-niigel-farage-wdp3mmq0w

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
dcbc1234 · 30/07/2023 18:30

She's not wrong. I often include men's sex based rights as also being under threat. It is though a poor law as it is so poorly understood across the board and then can easily be taken out of context by bad faith players like Stonewall. Many people including judges don't understand how to correctly apply the comparative characteristics correctly to any given situation. Equally it is obvious to me that gender reassignment was never meant to apply to those under 18. Kemi is right with Kafkaesque. Think law needs clarification and do we really need GRA at all anymore now gay marriage is recognised in law. People can present as they wish.

IwantToRetire · 30/07/2023 18:32

Sorry for stupid typo:

And ideas on how Government cant, without being dictatorial help solve the mess.

And ideas on how Government can, without being dictatorial, help solve the mess.

OP posts:
Yusay · 30/07/2023 18:41

It’s great someone is saying this.

So so many job adverts are out there which aren’t open to all races. For example many publishing companies run illegal ‘diversity schemes’ which are only open to applicants with certain colour skin. As a lawyer I’m always amazed how many HR departments don’t know the law.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 31/07/2023 10:19

Yes Kemi Badenoch or Miriam Cates. I think personally I might be closer to Miriam Cates on economic policy than Kemi. I do admire the apparent integrity of both these women as well as their clarity of thinking and communication and their courage in standing up for what they believe is right.

LizzieSiddal · 31/07/2023 10:21

No I don’t want her as PM. I want a sensible Labour PM.

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 31/07/2023 10:38

Yusay · 30/07/2023 18:41

It’s great someone is saying this.

So so many job adverts are out there which aren’t open to all races. For example many publishing companies run illegal ‘diversity schemes’ which are only open to applicants with certain colour skin. As a lawyer I’m always amazed how many HR departments don’t know the law.

Absolutely! Very glad someone in government is paying attention to what is happening, speaking out about it, and trying to defend us all from the abject mess we find ourselves in, caused not by democratic inadequacy, but by corporations with financial agendas doing social engineering to meet their own ends.

Think on how much more "valuable" an infertile transwoman is than a natal woman. No kids. No leaving the office on time. No getting called out of meetings for a nursery emergency. No needing a job that pays enough for childcare. No days off to look after kids with vomiting bugs. No menopause symptoms. And all the kudos of being a "positive inclusion employer" while really employing more men. Literally no one is on this diversity bandwagon because they give a single shit about the humans caught up in the centre of this mess.

bemorelemmy · 31/07/2023 10:45

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

are only left-wingers allowed to post?

WinterTrees · 31/07/2023 10:46

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

Or maybe Labour have become so relentlessly anti-women it's frightening?

Boiledbeetle · 31/07/2023 10:47

"Over the past three years, the Free Speech Union has supported more than 2,000 cases of people across the UK who’ve lost their jobs or been disciplined at work for lawful free speech".

2000!!!

LizzieSiddal · 31/07/2023 10:56

Papernotplastic · Today 10:28
This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

I agree. Let’s not forget the scandals of Tavistock, Mermaids, and Stonewall have all happened during 13 years of a Tory government. They did absolutely fuck all.

Duckskitbank · 31/07/2023 11:00

I think Kemi is brilliant. I’d love to see her as PM.

I’m not left wing but I’m still allowed to have opinions and post them (much to some Mumsnetters’ horror).

AdamRyan · 31/07/2023 11:02

IwantToRetire · 30/07/2023 18:17

Another really straightforwarded down to earth practical commentary of where chasing the rainbow has led us. And ideas on how Government cant, without being dictatorial help solve the mess.

The root of the problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Equality Act 2010, often exploited by those with a separate agenda. The Equality Act is a shield, not a sword. It is about preventing discrimination, not social engineering. There are no protected groups in the act, only protected characteristics. A white man is just as protected on the characteristics of race and sex as a black woman, yet many believe the act is there just to protect minorities, when in reality it protects us all.

Many companies’ diversity and inclusion activities are falling foul of the law; for example by confusing legal positive action and positive discrimination, which is illegal — except when selecting political candidates (a handy get-out-clause Labour devised to use all-women shortlists). Encouraging people from underrepresented backgrounds to apply for a job or go for a promotion is positive action, and legal. Restricting applications for a position to a certain group is positive discrimination and most certainly isn’t. This has led to increasing calls for the Equality Act to be scrapped. The act is 13 years old and could be improved but the issue is not the law. It’s bad actors misrepresenting it to suit their agenda.

Many of these laws were written at a time when institutions knew how to self-regulate. Someone proposing a terrible idea would be checked by colleagues in the organisation. Today, those colleagues are scared of being called bigots for disagreeing, so they say nothing. What the Farage and Sawers cases have done is show that this problem is getting worse. Long-held tenets of liberal democracy — freedom of association, freedom of conscience, the presumption of innocence — are being tossed aside in favour of dubious inclusion strategies that themselves fall foul of the law. In some cases they’re cancelling people before any wrongdoing occurs, leaving them with no way to prove their innocence.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kemi-badenoch-banking-scandal-natwest-niigel-farage-wdp3mmq0w
Also available via archive.ph

Many of these laws were written at a time when institutions knew how to self-regulate. Someone proposing a terrible idea would be checked by colleagues in the organisation.

You could say the same about parliamentary processes and I didn't see her making a noise about the various conservative rule breaking under Johnson.

So no. I don't think she's all that.

DontBeAPrickDarren · 31/07/2023 11:06

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

I am not and have never been a Tory voter but what in what she’s said here specifically is right wing? The bit about freedom of speech, freedom of association etc should be tenets of the left, shouldn’t they?

GailBlancheViola · 31/07/2023 11:11

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

So it is right wing to want the law upheld and to protect the rights of lawful free speech is it?

You really want to promote that being left wing is against those things do you?

No I don’t want her as PM. I want a sensible Labour PM.

Is there one?

Floisme · 31/07/2023 11:12

It would be really helpful if people could explain what it is about the content of the article that they disagree with.

dcbc1234 · 31/07/2023 11:17

WinterTrees · 31/07/2023 10:46

Or maybe Labour have become so relentlessly anti-women it's frightening?

This. Ex Labour-member now Tory voter for a couple of reasons.

LizzieSiddal · 31/07/2023 11:20

I haven’t yet read the article, but was responding to the OP’s thread title.

I may well agree with all of it, that doesn’t mean I want KB as PM.

dcbc1234 · 31/07/2023 11:20

Boiledbeetle · 31/07/2023 10:47

"Over the past three years, the Free Speech Union has supported more than 2,000 cases of people across the UK who’ve lost their jobs or been disciplined at work for lawful free speech".

2000!!!

Presumably they weren't in Unions or their Union refused to help.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 31/07/2023 11:21

She can fuck right off. She doesn't want disabled children to recieve extra support at school. She's abhorent.

GailBlancheViola · 31/07/2023 11:21

LizzieSiddal · 31/07/2023 11:20

I haven’t yet read the article, but was responding to the OP’s thread title.

I may well agree with all of it, that doesn’t mean I want KB as PM.

Didn't even bother to read the Op's post then? Just the usual knee-jerk reaction without any thought or consideration that is so beloved of the left eh?

CloudyMcCloud · 31/07/2023 11:23

Papernotplastic · 31/07/2023 10:28

This board has become so right wing it’s frightening.

What’s so great about left wing gender ideology?

Sounds bad all round

Hoardasurass · 31/07/2023 11:29

Does anyone have a share token for the article

Hoardasurass · 31/07/2023 12:16

Thank you @Igneococcus