Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

[SapphosRock]

Great article from Kathleen Stock.

unherd.com/2023/07/lesbian-mothers-should-be-on-birth-certificates/

It is surprising to me that anyone who supports women's rights would oppose lesbian parents having equal rights to straight parents.

From the article:

Naming a second lesbian parent on a child’s birth certificate is a family-friendly move. Arguably, if you squint a bit, it’s even a socially conservative move — though agreeing probably depends on whether you take, as your baseline, a society where lesbians will have children anyway; or whether you think of it as a cultural aberration that could, with discouragement, be stopped. Either way, putting a second lesbian partner on a birth certificate officially defines and legitimises her parenting relation within the family, allowing the burdens and joys to be shared between two adults, and adding a second layer of protection for the child. Family stability is important for good childhood outcomes, and this measure seems to provide some.

Correct. What about the woman who gave her eggs?

She is after all the equivalent of a man giving his sperm.

So, for those who like facts, baby x is conceived by a donor sperm and donor eggs and implanted into a birth giving woman.

Tje birth giving woman and the sperm giving man and the egg giving woman should all be parents. For those who like facts, that's how it should be.

Fathers really shouldn’t be left off of birth certificates barring cases of abuse or rape. That is a whole separate problem. Children have the right to that information.

The reason for the lack of outrage over leaving the father off of the birth certificate isn't to do with various phobias, but because of the contempt for men on this website. But that's a tangent for another day.

Tje woman who gives birth is the legal parent.

The egg donor has no legal right to the child at birth.

Hence why surrogacies have expensive contracts because the surrogate mother is more than entitled to change her mind, it's her child.

I am very glad for your children that they have that information about their donor, and that they are being brought up in a loving family :)

Yes, everyone should be recorded - the people who provided the gametes, the mother and the child's social parents if they're different.

To reflect both the legal and biological reality of a child, no matter who is raising them.

I dont disagree
But lets not pretend there isnt contempt for same sex and trans.

It's my understanding that the reason why the woman giving birth is recorded as the mother with instant parental responsibility is that she is in the unique position of providing protection, given the baby has just emerged from her own body.

It's about protection for the newborn child, that is my understanding.

In principle , yes, but I dont know how anyone cant see how that could be hurtful to the parents.

Ironically, the woman who gives birth is actually the one who's given The least at conception, yet she is the only one with legal right over the child.

I am the parent.

Yes I do agree with that in principle.

However there are different challenges with making the details of a sperm donor immediately available.

Could children demand access to their sperm donor before they are 18? Would the legal parents be required to facilitate this? Can children fully grasp the difference better a donor and a father?

I think having the details recorded and available to access in adulthood is sensible, and that is what we have in the UK now.

I dont disagree, what I'm pointing out is the inaccuracies earlier in their thread from people who dont seem to understand how same sex female conception works (and I wasnt being flippant despite the flippant responses I received back). Most gay women have one partner giving eggs to their partner which have been fertilised by donor sperm, to ensure the non birth partner has had a role in making the baby. It would be helpful if people so passionate about the rights of the child actually understood the process.

I actually think the reason we can’t express opinions about leaving fathers off birth certificates is because there is no way to do it without sounding like you are questioning the mothers morals and standards. People get very defensive of single motherhood. Even if the point is purely about providing a legal record for the child, it is an issue many people are very sensitive about.

Ir depends on the contract made between the donor and the parents. My understanding is most are anonymous and have barred contact.

Being a donor is hugely different to being a biological parent.

The issue is @SapphosRock is that you and I have been open and honest with our children about their origins. We've chosen traceable donors. A lot of people don't.

Being a donor is hugely different to being a biological parent.
Strange comment. Are you clear on what “biological” actually means?

That is also at play, but so is an ongoing stigma ahout two women or men choosing to have a baby.
This is shown by people who dont think two men should be able to adopt and would prefer a same sex set up however volatile.
Those of us with knowledge of the care system or same sex conception resent when people who dont make decisions they think is right for children.

Hi again hannah. It's been a while, I had missed your attention seeking.

I state it again. Biological parents are different to donors.

Perhaps you could entertain me for a hot minute and explain to me why I'm wrong.

This.
And fwiw, I commend you on your posts.

Yes, I can imagine that it could easily get very fraught. A 15-year-old wanting access to a sperm donor's identity could result in quite a few issues.

None of it's straightforward, but I think we all agree that the more information provided, the better, even if some of it is age restricted.

You're being really weirdly aggressive about a topic which you clearly don't know very much about @WildUnchartedWaters. It's very odd and unnecessary.

FWIW the HFEA removed anonymity from donors in 2005 and all children conceived in U.K. fertility clinics after that can trace their donor at 18. I think if this were added to the birth certificate, it wouldn't make any difference to that @SapphosRock. Just that the donor number would be recorded on the child's official paperwork, rather than just the mother's.

So you are really saying that I’m not the mother of the child that I gave birth too, breastfeed for over a year, is bonded to me as his primary caregiver, but have no genetic link to?

Lovey, where does the sperm come from?

you know you need some, yes?