Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

[SapphosRock]

Great article from Kathleen Stock.

unherd.com/2023/07/lesbian-mothers-should-be-on-birth-certificates/

It is surprising to me that anyone who supports women's rights would oppose lesbian parents having equal rights to straight parents.

From the article:

Naming a second lesbian parent on a child’s birth certificate is a family-friendly move. Arguably, if you squint a bit, it’s even a socially conservative move — though agreeing probably depends on whether you take, as your baseline, a society where lesbians will have children anyway; or whether you think of it as a cultural aberration that could, with discouragement, be stopped. Either way, putting a second lesbian partner on a birth certificate officially defines and legitimises her parenting relation within the family, allowing the burdens and joys to be shared between two adults, and adding a second layer of protection for the child. Family stability is important for good childhood outcomes, and this measure seems to provide some.

Fwiw I think the current fudge for lesbian couples where the woman who carried the baby appears on the birth certificate as ‘mother’ and the other partner as ‘parent’ works just fine from a parental responsibility point of view, and is in the immediate best interests of the child to have clearly responsible parents from birth

my concerns are

1. trying to apply the same logic to gay couples resulting in a loss of rights for birth mothers

2. the feelings of the children. I suspect a number of lesbian couples may find themselves presented with questions from their children around the entries on their birth certificates

Well, it was either at me or at others designed to point out my comment.

Both cases make mu point.

I wouldn't mind, but it was you who decided earlier upthread that everyone was allowed an opinion without question.

Birth certificates should reflect biological reality and record history, not hide it. It’s time for a complete redesign.

there should be a first line for the genetic parents of the child.
then a second line for the legal parents of the child .
and even a third or fourth line of the child’s life ends up being complicated.

for a lesbian couple, only the biological mother should be listed as a genetic parent. The second mother should be able to be listed as a legal parent as long as that legal status is confirmed.

I think people would like to think that because it suits their agenda.

I cant think of many examples where a child would be in turmoil because both or their female parents are on their birth certificate.

SapphosRock

i'm sure that you see that many people are sympathetic to the ins and outs of non-heterosexual parenthood, and the different ways in which children can be conceived.

And the consensus seems to be along the lines of a double certification. One recording biological fact, and the other parental responsibility, both produced at the same time.

To my ears, it sounds eminently sensible, and shouldn't be that difficult to implement.

Do you agree with it?

Do you understand how same sex female conception works?

I wouldn't mind, but it was you who decided earlier upthread that everyone was allowed an opinion without question.
Without question? I said nothing of the sort. Your lack of comprehension is actually quite tedious.

Oh ffs @WildUnchartedWaters, don't be so disingenuous. Obviously I'm referring to facts mattering with respect to this debate about legal documents and the rights of a child.

Not as tedious as your attention seeking without actually making a point of your own.

It’s not having 2 female parents on the certificate

the problem is no mention of their biological father

I'm not being disingenuous , at all.

I'm pointing out that you cant make up when facts matter and when theh dont and behave however you like with no thought to other peoples emotions and feelings.

You can have your views but whar you cant do is decide fact trumps all.

Someone further up said they only listen to the voice of a donor child. I personally put more weight on a mother than a poster who doesnt actually have a clue what they're talking ahout, and above the homophobic posters. If you choose to pretend its perfectly okay to say whatever you want that's your choice.

That was me. Funnily enough I do know what I'm talking about - the clue is in my username. My child is donor conceived but as I'm a single parent by choice, father is blank on his birth certificate. My son is nearly an adult so it will be his choice whether or not to find out more information about his biological father soon. I will support him in whatever he chooses but I suspect he will want to find out more. I am against anonymous donation because I don't believe it's in the best interests of the child.

Is it that 2 women make a baby?

because if that’s what you’re saying, then no, I don’t understand how that would work

I direct you to the many many threads on here where the advice is to leave him off

I find it utterly staggering that people think we must have the biological father who isnt in the picture but not the person who created and raised the child using their own eggs. Bonkers.

Incidentally, and I'm not up to date on my surrogacy, but are we then saying any surrogate child should have their surrogate mother on their birth certificate and the other parents never be acknowledged?

Your question makes no sense. Of course I know how same sex conception works. How is that at issue?

@RainbowUtensils thank you for sharing, it is really interesting for me to read how it feels to be a donor conceived child as I only have a parent's perspective.

I am sorry you don't have more info about your donor as that must be really frustrating and I can see why in your case it would leave lots of unanswered questions.

We have a picture of our donor aged about 8, lots of info about him, his job, hobbies, family, friends, blood type, a full personality profile, a voice recording and a handwritten note. I think this is enough info for young children to grasp their biological roots. One of my DC is the absolute image of him and understands that is because they are biologically related.

If my DC choose to contact him when they're adults they will be able to have any more info on their biological heritage.

I think most people are saying that everyone concerned with the genetic production of a child should be recorded. Alongside those with parental responsibility.

I ignore your homophobia.

The egg of one woman is implanted into the other woman, who gives birth.

The birth giver is the legal parent.

So the person who gave their eggs according to this lot shouldnt be on the certificate
Yet a man who gave his sperm to the woman should.

Could you explain how this makes sense?

Aremt many donors completely anonymous tho?

Many people , including people who are adopted ,want to know about their parentage. Whether it's because the 'father' space is empty , or because the father isn't actually the biological father and they have found out much later that this is the case, or because they were adopted at birth. Some people really aren't interested. If the birth cert has that info, then the child can decide what they do with it. Pretending that a child is born with no biological mother, or father helps no one. Many people are brought up by other than their biological parent[s] , but still need to know the truth. The information is for the child's benefit, nothing more.

Disingenuous post, as you've just answered the question you claimed not to understand.

Yet I dont see half the outrage for the thousands of people who leave the father off than I see the debate over same sex and trans.
Its homophobia and transphobia in plain sight, dressed up with concern for children , facts and good old MM confusion of 'how?'

Ah, donor eggs. Yes, my form didn’t account for those, but it should. that was sloppy. I guess we need another line.

In the case of a woman who gives birth to her own genetic child and the raises it herself, her name would appear on a modern birth certificate many times.

Incorrect.