Science of trans

[ConnieLinggusThe69th]

I'm not actually through this video yet nor do I know who the man is who's speaking but I'm finding it really interesting ... anyone else seen this?

I'll come back when I've finished it but the science that at least he's saying exists... is very intriguing

Years ago we had so few people who could actually fit the description of a transsexual and they weren't pushing to trample on women's rights. They acknowledged they were not biologically women and accepted somewhat that there was a sacrifice if you chose to live presenting as the opposite sex that didn't entitle you to the same rights as the opposite sex to the degree it's expected now because you weren't actually the opposite sex biologically and had different needs to women - you just never heard about a man demanding a Pap smear for example or talking about periods bc they recognised that would never happen for them despite presenting themselves as another sex outwardly

Years ago we had so few people who could actually fit the description of a transsexual and they weren't pushing to trample on women's rights.

I think the depiction of the 'old school transsexual' as benign is a fantasy. The main reason they were not a problem was because there were so few of them and they weren't being prioritised by governments and organisations. Jan Morris certainly seems to have trampled on Morris's wife and daughter.

See archive link to article in the Sunday Times by Suki Morys in this thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4695399-sunday-times-article-by-jan-morriss-daughter

But isn't there really still so few of them? I don't see many these days that anyone who does accept themselves as a catagory of man, transwoman is attacked by the majority and told they're wrong in the current "inclusive" culture where everyone decides what they are and forces everyone else to lie that they believe them cos feelings.

I don't actually think that many more people genuinely are trans I guess but lots more think they are atm

I think the depiction of the 'old school transsexual' as benign is a fantasy. The main reason they were not a problem was because there were so few of them and they weren't being prioritised by governments and organisations.

Plus they would have felt social pressure to be on their best behaviour. Any man expecting any sort of general public acceptance as a woman would have to do their best to downplay any sexual aspect and not push their luck.

And anyone already on the edge of social acceptance would absolutely not have improved their lot by trying to add "transsexual" on top.

Whereas these days we end up with "It's Ma'am!", Rachel McKinnon, Ginny, Sarah-Jane Baker, etc. Men whose behaviour is clearly unconstrained, and who are actually getting extra license because of the "trans".

I've been deleted. Not sure why. It would be helpful if Mumsnet could give some indication of what wrong-think line we have crossed when we are deleted so we can avoid making the same mistake again.

If you report your post and ask why your other post was deleted, MN will tell you. I have done this several times.

On the plus side, if they haven't sent you an automatic email to say why your post was deleted, it means they haven't issued you with a 'strike' for your wrong think.

Its all cross dressing.

Whats changed is the social pressure of everyone to pretend that it isnt, and that being female doesn’t make a women, but gender does. If a man dresses as a woman, and behaves as we expect women to behave, he becomes a woman. The reason older transitioners are happy to acknowledge their sex is because they dont see sex as relevant to being a woman.

Actually I’ve just checked my spam email and apparently I made a sweeping negative generalisation about a group which is not allowed. I’m not sure how I can word what I want to say about social stigma shifting from one group to another and in some instances being a necessity without crossing Mumsnet’s rules so I think I’ll leave this thread now as I don’t want to risk a suspension.

NecessaryScene · 20/07/2023 21:38

Thank you for the link to those podcasts. I listened to no 57 about feminine males who are androphilic, based mostly around research of Fa’afafine in Samoa where they are accepted.

What is striking in terms of our Western ideas, is that:

They display recognisably more typically feminine behaviour and interests from a young age, coupled with attraction to masculine males.

They know they are biologically male; only very few have dysphoria about their bodies - they don’t need to be trans in our sense.

They have nothing in common with autogynephilic older males; or with adolescent girls with ROGD.

It is noticeable to me that anthropological speaking there is something, however it may vary from culture to culture, that can be taken as more typically feminine or masculine behaviour or interests, for all that this is supposed to be only a social construct.

We certainly should never give feminine little boys or more masculine little girls any idea whatsoever that they are in the wrong bodies, as it seems that virtually all of them would either be gay, but happy in their bodies, or grow up as heterosexual and accepting of their bodies.

The whole idea we have that -transsexuals with deep, long standing gender dysphoria; feminine little boys or masculine little girls; unhappy teenagers with a history of autism, trauma or abuse; and autogynephiles - are “trans”, is misguided and dangerous.

His suggestion that (some) paedophiles could be satisfied by pornographic line drawings contradicts most existing research about motivation, reinforcement and habituation

I agree and know that in ‘anger management’ courses now it is NOT advised to, for example, hit a pillow on the grounds that it does no one any harm.

The reason given is that that would reinforce the primitive brain’s immediate ‘hit’ response. Instead people are advised to pause, step away and count down to give time for the balancing side of the brain to engage.

On the other hand, I can see there is a dilemma as, if there is no stopping the urge to hit, a pillow provides some reduction of harm.

I would guess a line drawing is going to be very unsatisfying in the end when someone knows that more realistic images, and ultimately real children, are out there.