Science of trans

[ConnieLinggusThe69th]

I'm not actually through this video yet nor do I know who the man is who's speaking but I'm finding it really interesting ... anyone else seen this?

I'll come back when I've finished it but the science that at least he's saying exists... is very intriguing

I skipped past the what makes someone gay bit.

He said that older men, in their 30s and 40s, are very happy with their 'transition'.

He then said children who grow up to be gay sometimes feel they are different in a way that they cant explain and see it as they should have been the opposite sex. But when they reach puberty, and their sex drive kicks in, they realise that they arent in the wrong body, just attracted to the same sex.

Stopping puberty in these children stops them from getting a sex drive and realising that they are gay.

Also, the argument that stopping puberty helps them pass as the opposite sex isnt as important as people think, because its established that late transitioners are happy with their transition.

This, at least, makes sense to me.

Yes he said older transgender people seemed happier, the old school ones who were happy to acknowledge their biology but present as a transwoman/man bc they'd had time to live as an adult to know what they would be sacrificing to present outwardly as the opposite sex onwards and they'd had a lot of therapy in making that decision to be sure that they would live happier - I don't think he applied to any man of that age would be happier after transition (the modern day woke man falls under my point below) but I do watch sometimes two YouTubers I quite enjoy talking about being trans and they'd strike me as the older ones bc they seem to be excommunicated or In scientology terms labelled suppressive people 😂from the letter people and they totally acknowledge they're a category of men, transwomen and seem to be quite happy and less defensive ... which always strikes me as it must be exhausting constantly correcting and educating people on pronouns and stuff

I also found the point about the behaviour of some (I assume TRAs can be particularly like EUPD (formerly borderline personality disorder) behaviours and people who have this disorder- well, part of that disorder- a symptom is an unstable identity... and you don't treat borderline personality disorder with gender affirming care and ignore the rest of it- those people don't get better after transitioning

Oh I certainly don't think destigmatising child abuse or people who want to commit it should happen

I do think we have a problem with running people so far underground and often to each other for support which quickly becomes normalisation of what must never be normalised in the most dangerous people and that makes it easier for them to offend and that we should make it easier for people to approach therapists and specialists who can maybe offer them drugs to reduce sexual desire. If it's biological- that's very unfortunate for them but since they can't help it I think knowing who they are more and making sure they're engaged in therapy to prevent offending from EVER being committed by them rather than giving them help reactively in prison sounds much safer personally

Also I do think it would be a disaster to include it in as a sexuality in any community beyond the medical one

On a pros and cons I think supposing we find out one day that being transgender is caused by biology and unfixable (like homosexuality) I think these points still confirm to me that allowing children to transition medically will always be unhelpful and that people can live happily after transitioning when acknowledging their biological sex exists - it does feel like erasure of an identity isn't helpful to people and recognition of sex rather than denial of it is an important part of living happily

I wonder why older trans people seem happier.

It’s such a mystery.

Because while they might have had surgery to stick a set of breasts on, they will have done absolutely nothing about removing their penis, i.e., their sexual function. And yes, I’m referring to men here (invariably straight).

Whereas young people are being encouraged to mutilate their bodies, take puberty blockers, impair their future sexual function / ability to have a normal intimate relationship, and ruin their fertility - all while having absolutely no concept of the impact of any of this because of their age. And yes, I’m referring (mainly) to girls here (often gay, often neurodiverse).

Such a surprise that older trans people are happier.

While retaining their ability to enjoy sex and reproduce. Mysterious...!

@CrazyArmadilloLady it doesn't seem like rocket science does it 😅 but people like to be special and complicate things- sadly medicine in this case

And whilst medicine gets it right with lots of things - we've had several tragedies. He mentions that in the video - I'm not sure if everyone would remember but satanic panic of the 80s/90s and false memories (not discrediting everyone but we know lots were as a result of the therapist)

Quite!

I guess he was saying there's different people all currently believing they're transgender

• Those who can be/are happier post transition who acknowledge their identity as biologically the sex they were born as still being the case and who are aware of what they sacrifice by living as transgender

• Those who have an unstable identity and would go on to figure out if they're really transgender or gay

• Those who don't like change and are coping with puberty

Etc

Different species under one umbrella like the headache example and so a smaller number than currently identify as trans might actually genuinely be transgender

But this isn't new the literature is there from the 60s onwards. In giddens 1990 book the transformation of intimacy there is a chapter on identity. I was teaching stuff about this 15 years ago in psych a level so all outdated by the time it's in teaching etc. So we've always known the types. Same for paedophilia, loads of research, books etc. It's like young people forget nothing is new.

Oh I didn't expect it to be new as such! It's new to me but he's been around a while clearly

Makes you wonder though, we had the knowledge before - why the fuck did we let this happen?!

Well my position on this is best summed up by trying to consider the difference between a 'man' and a completely unaltered 'trans woman/transwoman' the quality that would cause transition to be appropriate and correct response.

It is EITHER

1. Something physical, (which whilst we don't know and understand it yet could be known and understood. Could be found in a blood test on nb's, or a brain scan)

OR
2) it something metaphysical, ineffable, unverifiable but (for the faithful) profound

The question would however remain, if it is (1) why would those particular physical differences be considered more important and significant than people's sex.

Yes he said older transgender people seemed happier, the old school ones who were happy to acknowledge their biology but present as a transwoman/man bc they'd had time to live as an adult to know what they would be sacrificing to present outwardly as the opposite sex onwards

I dont think this is true, though.

If they are happy to acknowledge their biology why the move to change male id to female? Why the 'privacy' clauses in GRA where its difficult to disclose that the person is actual not the sex they claim to be? Thats not the actions of a group who are happy to acknowledge their sex.

I suspect the only thing preventing paedophiles from being added to the lgbtqia+++ is stigma.

I wonder whether older trans are happier is because they’re more likely to be ‘genuine’.
Jan Morris, Lady Colin weren’t manipulated or groomed, they lived as they had to, whereas younger Trans I feel are trying to fix something but living as the other gender is rarely the solution.
And is it older= living as the other gender for longer? Would a 60yo who transitioned a year ago be as happy as someone who’d been Trans for decades.
Thanks for the recommendation.

Yes, it was deliberately pushed and the people pushing have always known the consequences.

The men who transition later in life will have cross dressed for years before doing it full time. They have chosen how far to go and when, and dont care as much how people perceive them.

The young men are more self conscious. They want everyone to see their appearance as profound, but also cant handle the negative reaction. Also, they are encouraged to be themselves in public when every previous generation was doing it in private.

They also have the added pressure of drugs and surgery that the older generations didnt have. They know they are making life changing decisions.

Whoa.

Lady Colin Campbell is NOT trans. She is female and was born with a disorder of sexual development - fused labia. It was mistakenly believed that she was male due to this condition. As she grew up, her father refused to let her be treated for her condition. He mocked her for having a female figure.

Lady CC was approximately 20 years old when her grandmother paid for her to have corrective surgery.

Whatever you might feel about her calling her "trans" is wrong and unfair to a woman who suffered because of malformed genitalia.

@Florissante Happy to be corrected. Couldn’t think of any older trans people.

Such a surprise that older trans people are happier.

It’s known get happier as they get older, so possibly it’s not such a surprise, especially if they’re doing what they want.

Thank you for being so gracious.

Not at all. This is a good thread and shows Mumsnet isn’t all transhate but more nuanced- we’re genuinely interested, albeit with a firm baseline of protecting women.

Older heterosexual male transitioners like Jan Morris (over 40, father of several children, married to a woman) usually transition for completely different reasons to those who transition when younger, many of whom are gay.

I'm not sure you can say that someone like that 'had to' transition, although they obviously feel a need to do so, and in Morris's case (which is quite typical of this type of transitioner) this was regardless of the effect it would have on his wife and children.

I'm not sure what makes the pretence of some men that they are women more 'genuine' than others. What do you mean by 'genuine' here?

Apologies if I don't explain what I mean well- plan to come back to thread later and rushing DC around atm but wouldn't "genuine" in this instance mean basically those who actually were "transgender" (if we leave aside the pain that causes to others as a consequence for a moment - it also happens with gay people not acknowledging how they want to live before marrying the opposite sex, yes there's wider issues too about rights with transgender people and women) but wouldn't genuine basically = those who are not merely terming themselves trans but actually trying to cope with other issues such as an unstable identity, need for attention, trying to run from a body of a particular sex due to trauma they'd received in a female or male body etc ? So just meaning 'genuine' as the ones who even stand a chance of themselves being happier post transition who do it in an informed manner aware of living as an adult with sexual desire etc prior?