Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told

[Igneococcus]

Sorry can't do sharetoken on this device, I'll do one later if nobody else posts one.
Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told (thetimes.co.uk)

What an utter mess this all is.

"Prentis said that a blanket ban would be unlawful because the Equalities Act states that gender reassignment is a “protected characteristic”, regardless of age. She gave the same advice when ministers asked whether there could be a ban on social transitioning for primary school children."

Ok that’s good.

So there seems to be the absence of the same barrier wrt exiting ECHR or not

We can sort the situation with children under domestic law

This thread is about children. As you say the GRA has no relevance to children as it doesn’t apply to under 18s. So a discussion about the GRA isn’t relevant to this thread.

You could start a separate thread focused on the GRA 2004 and international law. It might attract some international treaty experts for you to debate with.

Doing it without admitting their culpability is their challenge I think?

I hadn’t considered it from that angle. I’d assume there’s still behind the scenes lobbying going on, a difference of opinion between Badenoch and Keegan, and some individuals hoping that a delay now might kick it into the long grass until a potential future point when Badenoch is no longer in the picture for some reason. A week being a long time in politics and all that.

Blimey I’m hoping it’s the other way around

A reshuffle takes out Keegan and Badenoch continues to do well and Cates takes increased profile with a higher position

People who derail threads onto discussions of their own niche interests can expect to see others legitimately commenting on the subject of the thread - which in this case is the much delayed trans guidelines for schools needed to ensure the safety of children from the "attention" of queer theory activist groups.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.
What is evident is that parents generally are horrified at what's being taught in schools under the guise of "gender identity" and the Tories are finally getting it in the neck from parents asking what the fuck they've been doing for the last 12 years to allow adults and groups who should be nowhere near children to influence policy and the curriculum.

I’m guessing there are hundreds if not thousands of lurkers reading this thread and if a fraction of them decide to look at the issue more closely or question their child’s school about its RSE policy/curriculum, then that can only be a very positive thing.

If the ECHR is genuinely allowing this attack on women, you think it's good to stay in it?

I dunno - should we compare how many women have died as a result of the GRA with how many women died before the Good Friday Agreement put an end to the troubles in Northern Ireland?

Because I'm willing to bet that any policy aspiration that essentially kills the Good Friday Agreement (ECHR membership is baked into the Agreement) would be worse for women than the GRA continuing.

It’s a difficult issue. Is there no way to take the GFA as wanted and replicate with new legislation

I don’t think sex based rights will threaten membership of the ECHR as not enough people care

But I think mass displacement could. If citizens demand change due to that those post war institutions could be at risk.

Are you including women who die at the hands of their violent male partners? Because when you have misogynistic policies taking hold, you set the scene for that. No I don't want to leave the good Friday agreement but that doesn't make the ECHR a good thing to be in if it is genuinely forcing us to pretend men have changed sex. To be clear I'm not suggesting it's trans identifying males who kill their partners. At least not at any greater rate than other men.

Would it be possible to take this onto its own thread so that the discussion of the OP can continue? This really is a different conversation and it's obviously one people want to have in depth.

Are you really claiming that the GRA has somehow contributed to women being killed by their domestic partners?

Do you have any evidence of this?

So talking about the harms to children from being put on a puberty blockers + cross-sex hormones pathway, and the surgery regrets of detransitioners gets reported and deleted.

Makes you wonder who’s monitoring the thread.

When misogyny is celebrated. Women pay the price.

So that’s a no in the evidence then?

It’s a pretty big claim that the GRA cost more women’s lives than the troubles. One you should be prepared to back up or retract.

Honestly I don't think it matters whether one of these things resulted in more deaths.

Being a member of an organization that locked us into unjust, foolish laws can't be justified on the basis that by leaving, some other people might react violently.

If the price of leaving the ECHR is ripping up the Good Friday Agreement - and it is - then that is a very relevant reason to stay.

You don’t get to throw Northern Irish women under the bus.

Yes, please take this discussion elsewhere now.

This is a thread about guidance for schools.

There was a survey a few months ago which found that one in ten 16-18 year olds wanted to change their gender.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12082949/Damning-report-finds-one-ten-schoolchildren-want-change-gender-so.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/14/gender-poll-trans-school-teenagers-civitas-parents/

Given these numbers, I'm imagining that a lack of guidance is going to make lots of parents very angry. Obviously some parents will be supportive of their children transitioning and some won't. But either way, both groups would want guidance for teachers (although the parents who are supporting their children may find it less pressing because the current confusion and fear among teachers works in their favour).

This could end up becoming a very hot political potato. I hope so. The more it is forced in to the open, the more the debate is accessible to a wider audience. At the moment the whole subject is still too niche to interest a critical mass. But if it can be shown to the general public that children are at risk of being on a pathway to harm ("social transition is not a neutral act") and schools are facilitating this without proper guidance, underpinned by poorly written laws, that could bring it right out in to the full sunshine.

I still believe there is a place for people to be free to express their belief in gender identity and to have support of they feel gender dysphoria. But this is belief-led. The harm that is being done by teaching it as fact and enabling it within schools needs to stop. At school everything should be sex-based, not gender-(identity) based.

I was interested to see in the Times this morning that Sunak IS going to change the Equality Act to clarify the issue about sex meaning biological sex. No doubt seeing it as a way of flushing out Labour / Starmer's weasel words about women. Presumably that would then enable the school guidelines to be completely clear about single sex spaces etc.

Ok this is good?

Does it look solid

I hope so

There's just a paragraph:

Sunak is also expected to put a renewed focus on transgender issues. As well as pursuing stricter guidance for schools, the government is also expected to press ahead with plans to change the Equality Act to introduce explicit protections for biological women in same-sex spaces such as changing rooms and hospital wards.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7b1d1576-2805-11ee-b92f-f3b1bf190fd2?shareToken=c69c1e4dc683898eb27ce23e15ffae71

I may be clutching at straws but as we've worried that the government "can't be bothered" with the hassle, it's a positive to see it reported as something that'll happen.

After the glorious debacle of the Beth Rigby / Stonewall incoherence, it's an open goal for the government. They know that every time politicians have to argue that men should be in women's sport, children should be set on a path to infertility & life long drug use or middle aged males need the right to undress beside 12year old girls, they disappear into a sea of meaningless derisory waffle looking both foolish and frankly, predatory.