Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told

[Igneococcus]

Sorry can't do sharetoken on this device, I'll do one later if nobody else posts one.
Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told (thetimes.co.uk)

What an utter mess this all is.

"Prentis said that a blanket ban would be unlawful because the Equalities Act states that gender reassignment is a “protected characteristic”, regardless of age. She gave the same advice when ministers asked whether there could be a ban on social transitioning for primary school children."

Of course social transitioning is a thing. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be getting so worked up about it.

tbf adults inform children of it. It’s only a thing because adults have brought it into schools.

Also how do you deal with single sex spaces as a legal provision in schools?

It's not really goalpost shifting, no one is using it as an excuse. It's a real practical issue.

I am not sure why people don't understand this, when you tie yourself to international organizations, it will limit the things you can do. That's the whole point.

It seems sometimes like people just can't allow themselves to realize that by being tied to these kinds of organizations, they are limiting what Parliament can do. That's not a value judgement about whether that is a good or bad thing it's just a statement of fact.

I don't agree. Children experiencing gender dysphoria often initiate a desire to socially transition.

Of course the term social transition is much more in the adult space. But the concept is pretty well known to most kids experiencing gender dysphoria who express a desire to change their name, appearance etc.

The frustrating point for me is how we never just get the simple sentence and it takes posts on mn to untangle it

Politicians aren’t trying to slow it down they are bound by international law

They should just say it. We can vote on what to do

I don't agree. Children experiencing gender dysphoria often initiate a desire to socially transition.

Do you have an age in mind when you think of this?

Can children be happy not matching social stereotypes and still not ‘socially transitioning’?

Gender identity ideology is affecting women, children, lesbians and gays around the world. I've no problem with the idea of tackling it within international organisations as well as domestically.

How does someone, as a citizen of the UK, go about trying to influence the EHRC?

I think you're conflating things.

The AG's advice was in respect of social transitioning and it concerned the Equality Act, not the GRA. Amending the Equality Act would not - probably - be in breach of the ECHR.

It's not international law that is the source of the issue the AG has identified, it is domestic law.

It is repeal of the GRA that would be hampered by international law.

That's not really how courts work.

They hear cases and decide on the legal issues those cases raise. The people who can influence the Court are the parties to the case.

Sometimes third parties can apply to become either a party to the case, or to make a submission to the court in respect of a specific case. Those are usually particular groups with particular expertise or functions, rather than random punters with an opinion.

Well the repeal the GRA seemed to come out of thin air not based on my posts.

So if any muddying of the water occurred it was due to posters’ assumptions.

But good news if we can change domestic law more easily.

By 'tackling it in international organisations' though you mean leaving the ECHR.

Let's just be really honest about what you mean.

That is the only way to remove the international law barrier to repealing the GRA.

Yes they are but there is no hierarchy between different acts. If a blanket ban was brought in it would be challenged under the EA and unless the EA has exceptions for things done in relation to the Children Act or safeguarding then the case would very likely succeed.

I've looked and I can't find any such exceptions although there is one for anything done in connection with the content of the curriculum, so perhaps something could be added there.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/89

Or, just amend S. 84 so that the PC of gender reassignment does not apply to school pupils.

No I don't. I suggested I had changed my mind about leaving ECHR after your ludicrous suggestion that laws based on decisions from that court could never be repealed. But that's not true (and I never thought it was).

Can those who think social transition is valid talk about what the person is doing in practise

Do they mean ‘presenting’ as the opposite sex? Ie looking different

What is it that makes a child unhappy. Are they sure it’s not a societal reaction to not following stereotypes and if we removed that they’d be ok

So a child turns up presenting differently, adults say fine no problem and the child is happy expressing themselves

@PlanetJanette can you say why a child would not be happier if we didn’t have gender stereotypes?

I'm unsure what you think the route to repealing the GRA is while remaining within the ECHR.

Can you enlighten me as to how you think that could be done?

Like I said, we continue fighting for women and girls' rights through the courts. Sooner or later a case will end up there, maybe several.

Pencil I think you have good intentions but sadly I don’t think it’s likely or fast enough

Multiple cases have already ended up there over the past twenty years. I'm not sure why you'd expect a sudden departure from twenty years of precedent affirmed in multiple cases.

Fast enough for what? What's your solution? We just live with these shit laws that harm women and girls forever?

It took decades for the TRA to get the GRA in place. If it takes decades to get rid of it again then so be it.

I’d go for a vote on ECHR

How many of those cases have been about women's human rights and the harm done to them by gender laws?

And by fast enough I mean for our dc who need action sooner

You're wrong. This is a totally adult led social contagion aided by the DfE who, in the last 10 years, openly encouraged schools to ignore their legal duty to be politically impartial. They funded all manner of queer theory activist groups, promoted them via DfE guidance and then stood back as organisations with an open agenda of making society a hostile environment for women and girls, promoted fantasies that children could be born in the wrong body with drugs and surgery being the solution. This has been sold to children of all ages.

As someone who worked in and with many schools in numerous local authorities in a pastoral context, children demanding to sex change just did not happen. The GIDs data backs this up. Children did not believe they were the wrong sex & demand to socially transition until adults with an agenda were let loose in schools.

Well obviously this has nothing to do with the need for good quality schools guidance, and even if we got the GRA repealed tomorrow it would have no effect on that.

Talk about the GRA is a massive derail for this thread. Apologies for my part in it.

I think it’s ok. I’m learning what is domestic and what is international, all good info.

I think we go as far as possible with domestic law then see if it’s enough or not and if not, vote.