FWR Mumsnet again the baddies for wanting to protect breastfeeding babies...

[Delphinium20]

We made the top paragraph and we're 'notorious'. Evan Urquart, a transman who writes for slate and has no children, has opinions on transwomen breastfeeding, likely due Uquart's spouse being one. But I'm speculating...perhaps Evan is simply mad at women wanting to protect babies.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230717131001/slate.com/technology/2023/07/trans-women-breastfeeding-safe-mumsnet.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230717131001/slate.com/technology/2023/07/trans-women-breastfeeding-safe-mumsnet.html

You could test any milk secreted, but you can't test things like the reciprocal benefits known to be in breastmilk without involving a baby.

Long been a problem with research into breastfeeding!

Indeed. Odd how so much untested, unethical experimentation on children and babies is advocated for by adults believing they can change sex.
It appears to be a feature rather than a bug 😞

teawamutu

I'm sorry.

When I think of how women have fought so fucking hard to maintain the ability to breastfeed - physically, culturally, politically - and how little help there is out there for new mothers, and how much energy is now being diverted into some idiot's attempt to break biological reality to validate his identity it tends to make me a bit cross.

This, all of this.

And I'm utterly convinced that the vast majority of women and men would agree. This scandal needs to be burst wide open in mainstream newspapers. Let these perverts be exposed and vilified.

It's only limped along this long with just the one study etc because it's been hidden in niche online news outlets. People like my dh genuinely don't believe it's really happening.

If this becomes well known enough, someone big can sponsor proper scientific studies on it (without harming babies I mean - expressing the goop and demonstrating how incorrect it is).

Have you all seen that photo of a particular TW (can't remember who but the image is burnt into my mind) expressing his moob goop? It was thick like cottage cheese. I'm wretching just remembering it. Absolutely no resemblance to breastmilk at all. Much more like pimple pus.

@teawamutu I welled up reading that. I hope your baby is OK now.

Oh thank you 💐 - he's a strapping (chubby, if I'm honest) nearly-teen now, so this is all a long time in the past. I'm surprised by how strong my feelings are, but I guess that says something on its own, doesn't it?

Ah thank goodness!

Yes I definitely feel stronger about these issues having breastfed myself. It's one of the most selfless actions I've ever done, so many long and arduous hours, sometimes painful, difficult, worrying, boring etc.

Just worlds away from creepy TW fantasy.

These experiences are so deeply felt and make such an impact on women. Elderly women are still affected by their birth and breastfeeding stories.

by which I don't mean you are elderly, tea! I mean these experiences stay with us all.

This is so true! I have two friends at work who have grown up kids...both of them know I had a horrific first birth and have been so nice talking with me about preparing for my next one. I said that because of the trauma I'd remember it forever, even the picture that was on the wall in my labour room. Both of them had straightforward (nothing went wrong) vaginal births decades ago, but they could remember everything too. One started describing the layout of the room she gave birth in. She said she couldn't believe she could remember it in such detail, hadn't thought about it in years but the memory was locked away intact.

People say "oh you forget about the pain of giving birth, otherwise no one would have a second" but the opposite is true I think. You never forget. You just decide it's worth it

I think the more sunlight the better - nothing says 'this ideology doesn't give a fuck about child safety' and indeed 'who cares if children are harmed as long as we get our way' than this story.

In the spirit of sharing, DD2 had horrendous acid reflux and I gave up dairy (whilst recovering from a c-section and getting no sleep and breastfeeding) on the off chance it made a difference (it didn't). It was incredibly hard and I did it on a 'maybe it'll make DD2 a bit better', knowing it might not help at all.

A lot of men just don't care about children like most women do. NAMALT obviously but there are a LOT of men who really would quite happily harm a child if it means they get what they want.

It's hilarious actually because it's so much the opposite of what real mothers do - obsessing about a cup of coffee or a paracetamol. By doing this they are showing themselves very clearly to be NOT women and NOT mothers.

And also, these men are not decent fathers either. Making everything about them.

Decent Dads support the Mum with breastfeeding (if breastfeeding) and help with giving formula from a bottle (which is tested and safe) if using formula and help with all the other childcare and the tsunami of nappies, sicky clothes etc. There's plenty to get on with and contribute to.

See also... transwidows threads.

I hate to say this, but this is epic scale trolling.
I truly believe this is the cruelty end of the post modern language disarray that the TRAs are trying to impose on society.

We're now going from the kink/TransReddit dark corners of the internet, one small step to specialist sub genres on Pornhub, to opening the door of this dank basement that none of us should be peering into, to broadcast these vices and imagery upon an unsuspecting and non obliging world.

I believe two things are going on.
Firstly 2023 level trolling, laser focussed hate against women, with the added frisson of seeming complicity and even support of the whole intersectional Left movement (see the signatories to the Mika Minio support petition).

Secondly, these people knowing they're losing the battle both legally as finer points of law coalesce against the TRA attitude, thus the language and dominating intent ramped up to toxic levels.

If it's any consolation to women out there, this escalation to trying to normalise outré kink attitudes and practices means all moral barriers are being broken. No more is the approval or even acceptance of the vast majority wanted or needed. Now the majority will have their noses rubbed in it, in the race to this queer utopia.

But their bluff is being called. And they don't like it. Prepare for a few more years of nuclear arms race as our protagonists go even more extreme.

I am 100% a supporter of breastfeeding. Fed all my kids, trained as a breastfeeding counsellor to help other women through difficulties with latch and supply and so on. Boycott Nestle, etc etc etc.

This whole "men can feed babies just as well as women, you nasty terfs" is sinister and wrong. Feeding your baby is about what is BEST FOR THE BABY. The ranking of what is best for the baby is:

1. Breastmilk from their mother
2. Breastmilk from another human adult female (like from a milk bank)
3. Formula

These men should not be trying to induce lactation by taking however many drugs to validate their identity as a "mother". The very act is selfish as they are putting their own feelings above what is best for the child. Breastfeeding mothers know that what they eat/drink can affect their baby. My middle child was horrendously unsettled every time I had an Indian takeaway - clearly something in that which got into my milk and didn't agree with her. Breastfeeding mothers are told not to take pretty much all medication. But it's OK for a man who thinks he's a "mother" to pop loads of pills and latch the baby on?

No. It's not OK. And it's very much not putting the child first.

https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/23642716.norwich-mp-clive-lewis-criticised-trans-breastfeeding/

'A small number of transgender women in the UK have reportedly undergone a course of treatment to help artificially produce milk, something usually given to women who have adopted babies.'

argh, the misinformation.

Omg how is Norwich not up in arms about this?! I genuinely would be demonstrating outside the MP's office if I lived there.

No comments on that article. Whyever not?

The Breastfeeding Network has lots of factsheets on contra indicated drugs for breastfeeding mothers. Y'know, those uterus-havers whose bodies are flooded with hormones for nine months prior to feeding a new born.

The factsheets are tactful but basically saying that there are situations where bottle is best. Eg if a mother has to choose between her mental health medication and breastfeeding.

The first sign of pregnancy for me was changes to my breasts, particularly for first pregnancy. It did feel miraculous discovering all these features that had been waiting dormant for 20 odd years since I first menstruated. The idea that this could be replicated by eg going on the pill or taking HRT (have exp of both) is laughable. But in a world where few people have ever encountered a real breastfeeding mother perhaps it seems possible.

When I started BFing, it was uncomfortable, awkward. Taking out my breast and putting it in someone’s mouth. I think that might be a Western thing rather than a natural feeling, but the attitude of trans women insisting like this with no apparent awkwardness seems. . . I don’t know . . . unwomanly?

Lots of women agonise over what they are eating and drinking while breastfeeding. Many women struggle to produce enough milk to exclusively breastfeed.

But sure, a transwomen’s hormonal chest secretions will keep baby thriving 👍

INSANE.

How selfish/deluded is this

FUCKSAKE

Yep.

I don’t believe that any of those who publish their reasons make it solely about their child. Because they can’t.

If it was solely about the child, formula or specialised formula would be the safest option if the mother’s breastmilk was not able to be fed. And by mother, I mean the woman who gave birth to that child.

What is sickening is that some
of these males believe they should be able to donate that secretion if they don’t do it for their own child!!! Jesus wept.

Omg this is just... yuck.

Also wtf even is the Tanner scale?! Some kind of scale that ranks how womanly you are based on the size of your breasts...?!

I'm afraid to Google it