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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transwomen in Professional Darts

64 replies

Heliotroper · 15/07/2023 08:30

Van Leuven knows that not everybody appreciates her “big glow-up”, as she puts it. Or the fact that she will be the first trans woman to play in a televised Professional Darts Corporation (PDC) tournament. Nevertheless, she wants to speak. “Because,” she says, “now I have the opportunity to tell my story. And not let other people tell it.”

The rules as they now stand are unequivocal: trans women are eligible to play in women’s tournaments as long as their passports say they are female, they have been in hormone replacement therapy for over 12 months and their testosterone level is below a certain mark. This is, of course, exactly as it should be. Physical strength, body development, player safety: none of these are remotely an issue in a game where all you really need is a functioning arm and decent eyesight.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/14/noa-lynn-van-leuven-darts-interview

https://dartsnews.com/pdc/interview-noa-lynn-van-leuven-becomes-first-trans-woman-at-televised-tournament-at-pdc-its-hard-to-do-top-sport-in-such-a-position

Noa-Lynn van Leuven: ‘I think darts is helping me to be the best of myself’

Dutch darts player will become first trans woman to play in a televised PDC tournament after a long road back to the sport she loves

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/14/noa-lynn-van-leuven-darts-interview

OP posts:
duc748 · 16/07/2023 18:11

Much like cue sports like pool and snooker. The best women players are good, but nowhere near the level of the top male players.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 16/07/2023 21:21

Size is definitely a factor in snooker. The average woman simply can't reach some shots the average man can.

duc748 · 16/07/2023 22:09

I'm sure it is. Nevertheless, I still think "if as many girls as boys played snooker" is a factor too. Look at women's football; I remember, years ago, it was rubbish! The goalies couldn't save a thing. But now, with more women and girl taking up the game, standards have improved massively. True for all sports. And more women and girls taking up sport in general seems to me a win/win.

Sooz41 · 16/07/2023 22:26

Males generally have a significantly longer arm reach/wingspan. Surely they would then be releasing the dart inches closer to the board than females if starting from the same line?

Iwasafool · 16/07/2023 22:35

GiraffeDoor · 15/07/2023 09:10

Why would this be? I fully understand about average heights, and muscle mass, and skeletal structure, but "inferior hand eye coordination" feels one step away from saying that women can't fly fighter jets etc.

Yes that sounds like a slippery slope.

Iwasafool · 16/07/2023 22:40

Heliotroper · 15/07/2023 09:44

A dart board is set with it's bulls eye at five foot eight from the ground

Why that height?

The most logical explanation is that it was the average height of man at the time they set the rules. When a dart is thrown it is held roughly at the same height as the top of the head.

I am also guessing that people shorter than this height face a disadvantage. Perhaps taller people do too.

Maybe they should set the bulls eye according to the height of the thrower. It wouldn't be hard would it.

IhaveanewTVnow · 16/07/2023 22:46

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/07/2023 08:46

It's evident that darts has single sex competitions but why? Presumably women can be as good as men so why is the sport not mixed sex in the first place?

Because it’s harder for women to get into darts. Historically women did not go to pubs to play darts. My grandmother use to play darts at club level and neighbours, men, other women, her family were openly hostile to her. We have years to catch up.

Heliotroper · 16/07/2023 23:44

IhaveanewTVnow · 16/07/2023 22:46

Because it’s harder for women to get into darts. Historically women did not go to pubs to play darts. My grandmother use to play darts at club level and neighbours, men, other women, her family were openly hostile to her. We have years to catch up.

My Nan used to have a ladies darts trophy on her mantlepiece, apparently she was the only one who had entered.

OP posts:
Indigotree · 16/07/2023 23:56

GiraffeDoor · 15/07/2023 12:50

Have you read The Gendered Brain by Gina Rippon? It is far from settled as "fact" that men and women have inherently different brains, in fact her research suggests quite the opposite.

This doesn't mean that I think men should ever be allowed into women's competitions.

Exactly.
There are reasons why trans people shouldn't be competing in sports as opposite sexes, but we shouldn't let these get mixed up with gender essentialism.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 17/07/2023 00:05

NicCageisnotNickCave · 15/07/2023 08:50

I vaguely recall (probably from a
sports podcast!) that there is a bunch of massively sexually dimorphic traits that impact anything throwing related - doubt that any of the blokes who run international darts give a shit though!

This might be the study I remember being discussed but I don’t have the brain power to read it properly this morning (need caffeine and reading spectacles first!)

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2019.00231/full

Which is why Andy Murray would be good at darts. Mens darts,since he benefited from male puberty and a male body.

EpicChaos · 23/07/2023 12:30

And when playing as part of a national team, if he qualified, is he expecting to share sleeping quarters with a proper female? If so, that idea needs knocking on the head!

Heliotroper · 23/07/2023 15:59

Greaves 4-0 Van Leuven

Out!

OP posts:
NicCageisnotNickCave · 23/07/2023 16:05

Heliotroper · 23/07/2023 15:59

Greaves 4-0 Van Leuven

Out!

Nice!

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