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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rise of Moms for Liberty in the USA

106 replies

TheABC · 13/07/2023 16:23

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in politics, but this group assembled in just 30 months and they look set to influence the GOP primaries. It's very much a product of the USA (anti-woke and anti-masking, etc), but it also shows what happens when a bunch of motivated, pissed-off women started organizing properly.

https://www.thefp.com/p/whos-afraid-of-moms-for-liberty?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Whilst I don't agree with many of their aims, what I find interesting were the same tactics and insults being used to shut them down, as we see over here - GCs get reported for hate crimes, they got reported for domestic terrorism.

Who’s Afraid of Moms for Liberty?

A growing cadre of angry mothers is taking over school boards and winning influence as GOP kingmakers. Why are they being called a ‘hate group’?

https://www.thefp.com/p/whos-afraid-of-moms-for-liberty

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ScrollingLeaves · 14/07/2023 11:12

Delphinium20 · Today 02:51
Here's a balanced article on the group. www.thefp.com/p/whos-afraid-of-moms-for-liberty

I think it is a balanced article too. It explains the real danger of some of them going far to far with book banning or extreme ideas.

That is very real worry, like that poor teacher sacked for showing the statue of David by Michaelangelo as if they had shown the students porn.

To get back to the OP, in the U.K. you can often see posts on here from a parent who feel concerned but powerless about what their child is being taught in PSHE. Some of the organisational methods the moms for liberty are trained in for how to influence PTAs and schools might be helpful.

Who’s Afraid of Moms for Liberty?

A growing cadre of angry mothers is taking over school boards and winning influence as GOP kingmakers. Why are they being called a ‘hate group’?

https://www.thefp.com/p/whos-afraid-of-moms-for-liberty

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 14/07/2023 11:17

DifficultBloodyWoman · 14/07/2023 01:06

Reading comprehension appears to be a problem for some people today.

Read the OP carefully. She is looking for a discussion of tactics, not politics. 🙄

Please do not be so narrow minded that you lose the ability to think critically.

Absolutely

I'm surprised people aren't able to separate the two

IWillNoLie · 14/07/2023 11:18

I think it is a balanced article too. It explains the real danger of some of them going far to far with book banning or extreme ideas.

People are always concerned one side will ‘go too far’ but ignore the fact that the TRA ‘side’ is sterilising and mutilating children, exposing children to explicit material including pornographic books in school, encourage violence against those who object and get arrested for paedophilia with remarkable regularity.

RudsyFarmer · 14/07/2023 11:20

If the Democrats weren’t so accepting of huge drug problems driving people out of cities/states and gender ideology playing out in schools you wouldn’t have to have the right pushing back so hard. We need off centre politics not hard left and hard right.

IWillNoLie · 14/07/2023 11:22

user1477391263 · 14/07/2023 01:00

They are a tiresome bunch who are making it more difficult to actually message sensibly about this issue. It's going to be even less likely that my North American friends are going to see sense on the trans issue when you've got groups like this in the media, essentially encouraging the idea that questioning the trans narrative is for nutty MAGA hat wearing types.

If you want an inspiring group of women, well, you've got one right here - Mumnset. We did a lot of the work in getting the conversation rolling in the UK.

“nutty MAGA hat wearing types” elected the last US president and may elect the next if the left carry on this course.

NotBadConsidering · 14/07/2023 11:46

With book banning, the Left are just as guilty of these tactics. They’ll cry foul and shout loudly about how awful it is that the Right is trying to “ban books” or ban book X, or ban all gay books, to distract from the fact the Right might be trying to impose an age restriction because a book contains a graphic description of sex/sexual abuse, are actually concerned about book Y, or are trying to ban books that teach children lies about gender ideology.

And it was Chase Strangio, lawyer at the ACLU who wanted to burn every copy of Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier.

Both sides partake in the tactics, but the hypocrisy of the Left means they’re more likely to lose.

NotBadConsidering · 14/07/2023 11:48

As an example of that hypocrisy, does anyone have that clip of a school meeting, where a school board thought a book was absolutely fine, so a mother read out loud the offending chapter and was very quickly cut off by the very same school board that thought it was fine?

StormShadow · 14/07/2023 11:51

I don't think they could exist as they do if not for justified anger about some of the more appalling pandemic policy responses in the US wrt schooling.

TheABC · 14/07/2023 11:55

Wow - I stepped away from this thread, expecting it to sink without a trace and find all of your responses on it, this morning!

To be very clear: I'm in the UK and I disagree with many of Moms for Liberty's aim. I don't want to see books banned, people hounded out of schools, or the shutdown of sensible sex education programs.

The reason why I posted it is because they are a grassroots group that has got people to listen to them. My Gods, can you imagine a GC group getting that level of attention in this country from the political parties? Lesbian Labour can't even get a meeting with their party's Shadow minister for Women & Equalities.

Even the slurs - Nazis! Far Right! Domestic Terrorist! follow the same pattern as what I have seen with Posie Parker Kathleen Stock, JKR, and anyone else who has stuck their head above the parapet. One of the things that struck me Julie Bindel's most recent Youtube interview was the high price people paid for speaking out against gender ideology. There's no upside to doing so, whilst the downside ranges from losing your business to seeing your kids threatened.

Instead of engaging in a media battle they can't win, MfL chapters are closed to journalists and focused on what they can win; with voting power, purchasing power and mass engagement. It's very telling they have 120,000 members across 45 US states and the focus is on school education. They can't all be neo-Nazis, which means something has gone very wrong in the political discourse over there (and here). And instead of discussing it, the left's instinct is to shut it down.

My instinct is to debate things in the open. If I'm wrong, I will happily hold my hands up and say I am wrong. What I am wondering is; how can we better use our power here in the UK to amplify women's voices? Because we are always the afterthought, legally and politically.

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OneMorePlant · 14/07/2023 12:03

I don't know this group but I'm a tad confused as to the criticism of removing the explicit content of the Anne Frank diary. In my school when we talked about it they skipped that part to.

Call me crazy but I don't see why masturbation schould be discussed while talking about the holocaust.

TheABC · 14/07/2023 12:04

StormShadow · 14/07/2023 11:51

I don't think they could exist as they do if not for justified anger about some of the more appalling pandemic policy responses in the US wrt schooling.

I agree. And the most batshit aspects of gender ideology over there are not helping, either. The Loudoun School Board scandal is the most vivid example, alongside the everyday sexism of girls losing out in sports to trans-identifying boys.

The left/liberal/pick your label are their own worst enemy because they refuse to acknowledge there might be a problem, here.

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TheABC · 14/07/2023 12:07

If you want an inspiring group of women, well, you've got one right here - Mumsnet. We did a lot of the work in getting the conversation rolling in the UK.

Absolutely! But we are still one tiny corner of the internet; what else can we do especially with an election coming up in the next 18 months?

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Grammarnut · 14/07/2023 12:26

user1477391263 · 14/07/2023 01:00

They are a tiresome bunch who are making it more difficult to actually message sensibly about this issue. It's going to be even less likely that my North American friends are going to see sense on the trans issue when you've got groups like this in the media, essentially encouraging the idea that questioning the trans narrative is for nutty MAGA hat wearing types.

If you want an inspiring group of women, well, you've got one right here - Mumnset. We did a lot of the work in getting the conversation rolling in the UK.

That's true, Mumsnet is a great forum and is listened to. I think the problem is that for left-leaning people (like me) it is very difficult to oppose either the transagenda or CRT (which is a pseudo-scientific system aimed squarely at intimidating white people or people of colour who do not act in the acceptable way poc should act) because both are labelled as progressive, inclusive, anti-racist etc. I imagine that problem exists with knobs on in the US where a Democrat's refusal to toe TWAW or CRT results in a pile on and also probably loss of job (and health care etc).

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 14/07/2023 12:32

the focus is on school education

Another reason why it's a "US thing" is that US education is much less centralised than the UK. The US has a system of local directly elected school boards which specifically make decisions about education in their area. Each board decides for their own "district" and (if I've remembered right) some school districts can be as large as a whole state. So members of these school boards are more politically influential and powerful than UK PTAs or school governors.

It's amazing what you can learn from Sasha and Stella Grin if I remember right Kate Parker explained the US system in episode 117

It's a good question though, where can we have that kind of leverage?

donutsofthesoul · 14/07/2023 12:54

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Signalbox · 14/07/2023 12:57

Interesting thread. I’ve not heard of MfL and so I know nothing about them but the instant denunciation of a grass roots women’s organisation as “vile” and “tedious” is so familiar now it makes me want to go and look at what they are actually about.

Signalbox · 14/07/2023 13:07

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Do you really believe this? Most if these people will have had decent careers already. Kathleen Stock hasn’t done what she’s done as a career move. She already had a decent secure job that she enjoyed. Sharron Davies says she has lost almost all her work as a result of speaking up. Graham Linehan has panned his career and fucked up his marriage. JKR was beyond rich anyway so clearly in it for the money. KJK is a tireless campaigner and (I think) puts her safety at risk every time she leaves the house. Do you really think any of these people are financially better off now than if they’d just kept quiet?

donutsofthesoul · 14/07/2023 13:24

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DeeCee77 · 14/07/2023 13:25

Is this the same group who don't want history taught in schools?

That the natives were dehumanised as "savages" in the declaration. That this racist depiction america was founded on would later be seen with two statues of "savages" infront of the US Capitol building (like the White House, another building built by slaves) which stood for over a century before their removal in the 1950s.

That thomas jefferson, pioneer of scientic racism, wrote in 1785: "blacks are inferior to whites in the endowments of body and mind"...and although he opposed to race mixing he did rape at least one of his 600 slaves, and also wrote: "the improvement of the blacks in body and mind, in the first instance of their mixture with the whites, has been observed by every one, and proves that their inferiority is not the effect merely of their condition of life".

That george washington hired a slave catcher during the revolutionary war to try and recapture some of the 18 of his 600 slaves who fled his Mount Vernon plantation inorder to join with the British to gain their freedom (upon doing so these slaves were given jackets with "liberty to slaves" stitched on them). That at the end of the war he demanded their return, but they sailed out if New York harbour to freedom.

That the national 'slave defending' anthem (star spangled banner), written by another slave owning tyrant Francis Scott Key, has a third verse (conveniently no longer sung) which excoriates these slaves (mentioned above) who had the audacity to seek freedom by joining with the British. This is why blacks don't sing this slave anthem (they have their own.."lift every voice and sing"). Nobody should be singing it.

That the fugitive slave clause of the constitution, which came into effect with the fugitive slave act of 1793 (signed by washington), made it a federal crime to prevent slave owners (Jefferson, washington and co.) from recovering their property (slaves). That these slave owners took out adverts in newspapers offering a reward to those who could recapture their slaves.

That only whites are americans per the 1790 naturalization act (precluded non whites from citizenship). This restriction continued into the 1920s when an Indian was denied citizenship as he "wasn't deemed white".

https://www.nytimes.com/1923/02/20/archives/court-rules-hindu-not-a-white-person-bars-high-caste-native-of.html

That only (wealthy) whites could vote prior to 1870, and although not a slave owner like washington and jefferson, Abraham Lincoln was against that race based vote changing, stating in 1858: "I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people"

That the ban of interracial marriage (anti-miscegenation, another american concept which the Nazis would emulate in their Nuremburg laws) only ended in 1967.

That america was 90% white prior to the 1965 immigration act which ended two centuries of immigration restriction on non whites, a policy which Hitler praised in Mein Kampf; "the American Union categorically refuses the immigration of physically unhealthy elements, and simply excludes the immigration of certain races."

And a religious one.....That the pilgrims (puritans) were an extremist persecting cult who banned everything that didn't align with their narrow beliefs. The only thing to be thankful for is that their reign of terror ended so quickly.

This "moms for liberty", an anti-freedom censorship group, want an ignorant populous. They perpetuate hate and bigotry by trying to pretend history never happened, so theres no learning from it, no humility. Their ilk is the reason america remains so toxic today. In contrast, Germany, just 80 years after the holocaust, although not perfect, owns their history, its taught in schools, which is why they have topped polls (twice by the BBC) for their tolerance to diversity today.

StormShadow · 14/07/2023 13:27

TheABC · 14/07/2023 12:04

I agree. And the most batshit aspects of gender ideology over there are not helping, either. The Loudoun School Board scandal is the most vivid example, alongside the everyday sexism of girls losing out in sports to trans-identifying boys.

The left/liberal/pick your label are their own worst enemy because they refuse to acknowledge there might be a problem, here.

This is true, and I'm on the left. You leave a vacuum, it's going to get filled. In the UK we also have the issue that the mainstream right wing political party, the Tories, have been balls deep themselves in this as well. Theresa May tried to bring in self ID. Penny Mordaunt may well be the next PM, and she's not even one of the ones who knows what a woman is.

ThatParent2 · 14/07/2023 13:42

Thanks for the history lesson. Most posters here are not American, so are not going to get exercised about America’s past. To call Jefferson the ‘pioneer of scientific racism’ is a bit inaccurate, I think, there were plenty of Europeans who wrote more important works of so-called ‘race science’. In this day and age you really have to be cut off from the world to not know about the history of race in America, so to say that MfL demand the complete shutdown of any teaching of this seems unlikely as it’s unrealistic. I’d also like some evidence for the claim that MfL oppose interracial marriage.

As for Germany as a beacon of diversity … that’s debatable. Perhaps you haven’t heard of the string of racist assassinations targeting Turkish Germans a few years ago, and the recent gains for the far-right AfD are also worrying.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 14/07/2023 14:04

I find it really odd that whether certain books should be available in school and discussions about whether content of books is age appropriate and, therefore, whether they should be banned from being in schools or not given to children of a certain age, or contextualised when given to children, being described as "book banning". This is something that happens all the time. There are plenty of books that are not available in school libraries and which are not on the syllabus, or which schools restrict access to, because of concerns about the appropriateness of their content.

TheABC · 14/07/2023 14:19

@DeeCee77 , thank you for your post.

I can't comment on their anti-history bias but they do seem to have hit a nerve with their parental rights and empowerment pitch - enough that they have spread across the USA, including those who would have traditionally been seen as liberal (California & Washington).

Are you saying it's pure racism?

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ScrollingLeaves · 14/07/2023 14:34

PaleBlueMoonlight · Today 14:04
I find it really odd that whether certain books should be available in school and discussions about whether content of books is age appropriate and, therefore, whether they should be banned from being in schools or not given to children of a certain age, or contextualised when given to children, being described as "book banning".

I think I mentioned book banning as a concern earlier. You are right, “book banning,” suggesting an outright erasure
of certain literature, is an inaccurate description of the steps taken by schools and libraries that you’ve just listed.

I am not sure exactly what MoL has been doing on that score. It seems worrying from reading this article about MoL criticising the “Wit and Wisdom” programme,

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/11/07/the-right-wing-mothers-fuelling-the-school-board-wars

though having said that, I am not mollified by the article writer’s sarcastic tone either into believing that a book all about sea horses being able to change colour wasn’t about gender identity etc:
( A picture book about seahorses, which touched on everything from their ability to change color to the independent movement of their eyes, threatened tonormalize that males can get pregnantby explaining that male seahorses give birth; the Moms suspected a covert endorsement of “gender fluidity”

also, if this is true,

At a publicwork sessionin June, 2021, the team announced that, after a preliminary review, it hadn’t found any violations of protocol. Teachers had spent a full workday familiarizing themselves with Wit & Wisdom before implementing it.

a single day is certainly not long enough to actually read 118 core texts for “Wit and Wisdom” and be sure of what is or is not appropriate or balanced for the various age groups.

LifeExperience · 14/07/2023 15:03

Moms for Liberty has no issue with interracial marriage. Erika Donalds, who sits on the board, is a white woman married to a black Republican Congressman.

These are conservative, religious American women (as am I) who are sick to death of the woke bs that passes for education in America today. They're fighting back by organizing and getting elected to school boards to change the curriculum. They're not racist, homophobic, fascist or any other name the left calls the right when they're losing an argument. These are moms who've had enough and are fighting back within the system. Nothing is more democratic than that.

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