Man charged after Isla Bryson alleges abuse in prison

[LonginesPrime]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/police-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-clydebank-edinburgh-msps-b2367974.html

I'm sure many gender ideologues will say that this is why Isla Bryson needs to be in a women's prison. But actually (and setting aside Bryson's own abusive crimes for a moment), while it's horrible that anyone, trans or otherwise, suffers abuse, this was never women's problem to solve.

It's solely a men's issue - a male prisoner identifying as a woman and allegedly receiving abuse for it from other male prisoners and from staff is an issue for the men's prison to solve within their own estate.

All too often, women are called upon to solve men's problems for them, but housing Bryson in a male prison and forcing management to actually think through a solution themselves instead of passing the buck is exactly what should be happening.

It's inevitable that having to accommodate a trans prisoner will bring new issues and will require a lot of additional thought and problem-solving on the part of the prison. That's what it takes to accommodate trans people and it's tough luck if they happen to be under your remit.

It was a nice try on the part of the male prison to pretend to buy into transwomen's own purported inner sense of gender identity so deeply that they identified them all the way out of their care and into the women's prison, but that's not how real life works and people saw through it.

It's exactly the same issue with single-sex changing rooms and toilets - instead of pushing the issue onto women and shaming us into being accommodating to our own detriment, organisations need to accept that the issue of transphobia in men's bathrooms is a men's issue and a trans issue, not a women's issue.

This additional work that the men's prison now has to do to accommodate transwomen is exactly why it is so much more appealing to organisations to simply bully women into moving over and making room in their own single-sex spaces for transwomen. It takes work and extra resources to accommodate additional needs, and if there's a way to wriggle out of that and save money, organisations are going to take the easy road and bully women instead.

I agree. This is an issue for the male estate to handle.

Society needs to provide a safe 3rd space for trans people. Women don’t want the Isla Bryson’s of this world in their intimate spaces and it is men who will harm them so they are not necessarily safe in men’s space. 3rd space has always been the answer to this conundrum.

It's solely a men's issue - a male prisoner identifying as a woman and allegedly receiving abuse for it from other male prisoners and from staff is an issue for the men's prison to solve within their own estate.

Absolutely, OP.

Well said. All sorts of people are additionally vulnerable in male prisons,gang members, sex offenders, ex police, gay men etc. Trans identifying men should be dealt with in the same way as all of the above are.

Isn't it likely that he's getting abuse because he's a rapist rather than because he's transgender?

I agree that it isn't acceptable either way

Yes, while I think a 3rd space is a great idea as a gender neutral space for people who want it, I think the prison issue highlights the fact that single-sex spaces will often need to be adapted to manage the needs of trans people within those single sex spaces.

Hospitals aren't going to be able to build a new gender-neutral ward, for example, although they obviously could accommodate trans patients in the side rooms of the ward for their biological sex very easily if they actually wanted to.

If we move to a 3rd gender neutral space for all trans people, I don't think it would be too long before many biological females who identify as non-binary or as transmen would realise that having a single-sex space is still necessary to protect their safety, not least as literally anyone can walk into a gender neutral facility unchallenged.

In my opinion, the key message from the government at this point should be that it's each organisation's responsibility to accommodate biological males with varying gender identities in male single-sex spaces, and biological females with varying gender identities in female single-sex spaces.

Naturally, that's going to bring up all sorts of issues (including women being alarmed seeing a bearded transman walking into the ladies, trans people not wanting to out themselves, etc) and perhaps the most practical answer for many situations will be a mixed third space. But either way, that's for the organisations to find a solution to, as it will obviously depend on their specific facilities.

The only reason many organisations are getting away with the easy option of doing fuck all and letting each of us fight this out on a case-by-case basis is because the government has remained silent on the issue whenever they can get away with it.

And we are 100% sure this isnt orchestrated to show how vulnerable this big beefy violent double rapist is?

Agree with this being a men’s problem.

Don’t agree with third spaces - I just don’t think they’d be used and well maintained.

This kind of pours cold water though on trans people who want validation by being in single-sex spaces of the opposite biological sex —although we’re told that isn’t a thing—.

Agree. I am sure that many TW are vulnerable in prison, but I doubt Bryson is one of them, simply because it's so obvious that his claim to ID is female is a grift. Even his mum says so. Prisoners tend to be extremely savvy about other prisoners trying it on, in any respect - you can't kid a kidder.

Could well be, or possibly for being seen as having tried to 'escape' to the women's prison, maybe.

I guess there will be lots going on as prison is full of mean criminals, so it's not a huge surprise that they're not all inclusive of people's innermost feelings.

In any case, being a rapist isn't a protected characteristic under the equality act (yet..) so I can see why it makes sense to focus on the transphobic abuse, which I'm sure is happening too, because realistically prison isn't a nice place.

I would be interested to know if abuse of other, non-trans prisoners is taken as seriously as these allegations were. I’d also be interested in the specific allegations as transphobia as a term is a very broad umbrella.

Are many men in male prisons are arrested for 'alleged threatening behaviour and abuse' of other male prisoners, or is it only an arrestable offence when the alleged victim is male identifying as female?

Because from what I've heard of prison, men threatening each other and being abuse to other men in prison isn't an uncommon occurrence yet we don't hear much about arrests for it.

Yes, exactly - it will be used as a "we told you so" to convince everyone that transwomen are unsafe in men's prisons, as if the reason women objected to Bryson being in a women's prison was because we didn't believe gender ideologues that male criminals are mean and violent.

Obviously transwomen will be more vulnerable in the men's prison, just as religious or gay or disabled people will potentially be - keeping them all safe is part of the job of managing a prison.

Remember in women’s prisons we hear reports of women being given extended sentences and other punishments for calling men locked up with them men.

There are lots of vulnerable prisoners in the male estate, for example child abusers are often targeted by other prisoners. Being vulnerable does not mean they should be moved to women’s prisons.

Rapists often have a hard time in prison.

If men do not want to be assaulted in prison, they shouldn't go around raping women. I am not condoning violence btw, just explaining cause and effect.

There seems to be a current trend for stories where we are expected to believe that compulsive liars, grifters and rapists are telling the truth about what’s happening to them and expecting some sort of sympathy.

It says “threatening and abusive behaviour” . While it is not acceptable of course, it does beg the question of what the threatening and abusive behaviour was.

As we all know, for some trans people putting small stickers on lamp posts, or tying purple and green ribbons on railings is very traumatic and leads to actual fear of physical retribution. I am not suggesting that stickers and ribbons were involved in this case, because how would they be obtained for a start.

But who amongst us knows how emotionally vulnerable a double rapist is.

Bryson has no business being in a female prison where basically they can carry on perpetrating.

The male estate has failed in protecting Bryson from other predatory males. (Much like women were failed in protecting them from Bryson.) The male estate needs to sort themselves out, and yes, the perpetrators should be charged.

Nope

It's for men to accept trans women in mens spaces.

The idea of third spaces has been done to death now.
All it will mean in most instances is that men will have yet another space to use and women will have the same as always. ie. Not enough.

Exactly ☝

FGS pink leggings man hasn't been assaulted in prison, so the officers must be working extra hard to protect him. He claims transphobic abuse, which as we all know is most likely 'misgendering'.

Clickbait article.

The trans identified men should be put in a separate wing.

of the men's prison, of course.

And we are 100% sure this isnt orchestrated to show how vulnerable this big beefy violent double rapist is?

In the Daily Record piece a "legal source" claims that he has a good case against the government for putting him in a male prison "while transitioning".

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-double-rapist-isla-bryson-30370428

The legal source said: “The reality is that Bryson could probably set up an argument in relation to a breach of her article 8 rights in respect to privacy on the basis that she should be in the female prison estate given that she is transitioning. However, it would be necessary to show that the regulations which the Scottish Government has introduced were not necessary or not proportionate so as to override her rights.”