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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First Direct and Natwest closing bank accounts for political reasons inc being gender critical

698 replies

Snorkers · 30/06/2023 15:47

Apprently First Direct have closed the account of the Wings over Scotland founder for his beliefs (He's Gender Critical), and Coutts, owned by Natwest, closed Nigel Farage's account.
Whatever you think of Nigel Farage he is entitled to a bank account.

This is really worrying.

I bank with First Direct. I am gender critical. Do I need to hide my beliefs to keep my bank account? Will tey stop me getting access to my money?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12249755/Nigel-Farage-claims-three-loved-ones-bank-accounts-closed-Brexit.html

Are banks shutting accounts of customers with anti-woke beliefs?

Mr Farage has not named the bank who plan to shut his personal and business accounts this summer, but is understood to be Coutts, the famous 327-year-old private bank whose clients include the Royal Family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12249755/Nigel-Farage-claims-three-loved-ones-bank-accounts-closed-Brexit.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
78
BanjoKnockers · 30/06/2023 21:54

ResisterRex · 30/06/2023 21:53

He's not being left with nothing

He's been removed from banking for his business. It's dark AF

What's remarkable is that he is publicising it!

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 30/06/2023 21:56

ChampagneCommunist · 30/06/2023 21:47

What is Annex B? Google isn't helping me

Annex B of this PDF https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf the link is direct to a PDF.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

Lillonely · 30/06/2023 21:57

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 30/06/2023 21:48

ps it’s not my cause.

The second person pronouns have several meanings. The first is referring to a specific person or group of people directly. Example: "please give me your coat so that I can hang it up".

The second meaning refers to an undefined group of people. Historically, the pronoun "one" was used for this purpose, but it's deemed old-fashioned and I am mocked when I use it.

The third meaning, which works better in person when I can turn my gaze to the audience, is addressing onlookers who are witnessing a conversation.

When big conservative organisations like banks support a cause, that cause isn't in any way revolutionary would have been clearer wording but loses the rhetorical device of addressing the "board monitor" TRA audience with the you.

how wildly condescending

i am aware of how the second person is used in English vernacular. One always runs the risk of conflating you in the general sense with you in the specific sense when one uses you instead of one.

i wanted to distance myself from a appearing a TRA in response to your post just in case my original post wasn’t clear

ResisterRex · 30/06/2023 22:00

What's remarkable is that he is publicising it!

Why is that remarkable?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 30/06/2023 22:08

Lillonely · 30/06/2023 21:57

how wildly condescending

i am aware of how the second person is used in English vernacular. One always runs the risk of conflating you in the general sense with you in the specific sense when one uses you instead of one.

i wanted to distance myself from a appearing a TRA in response to your post just in case my original post wasn’t clear

I genuinely thought that you had interpreted my post as accusing you of holding TRA views and suspected that you might not understand the third sense of "you". Not everyone here is a first language English speaker.

I was trying to be helpful by explaining that nuance of grammar to someone who had given me cause to think that they might not yet be aware of it.

I didn't recognise the "distancing" n+1th meaning of "it’s not my cause" so thank you for that new addition to my Understanding Humans Guide.

BanjoKnockers · 30/06/2023 22:09

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 30/06/2023 22:01

FYI it's now confirmed:

I'd hesitate to say confirmed!

Journalist Toby Young told Nigel Farage on GB News that the unnamed man who contacted him about the case was told in response that his account would be closed down.

A mysterious anonymous man told a journalist what Yorkshire BS said, who went on to tell Nigel Farage.

What the building society actually said:

Yorkshire Building Society today declined to comment on the case but a spokesman said: 'We do not close savings accounts based on different opinions regarding beliefs. We would only make the difficult decision to close a savings account if a customer is rude, abusive, violent or discriminates in any way, based on the specific facts and behaviour in each case.'

DontBeSoGlaikit · 30/06/2023 22:19

This is exactly why so many people are choosing to pay with cash and resisting the move to all-digital. It makes everyone incredibly vulnerable and as a pp said, it’s trending towards the social credit system.

We saw it happen in Canada with the protests a couple of years ago, when protestors had their bank accounts frozen.

Some people take the moral high ground and think this kind of action is justified when it’s levied against those who they think have ‘wrong’ viewpoints, like Farage. They forget that when they lie down and allow this kind of abuse of power (be it by banks, or governments as we saw during Covid) they expose everyone to this kind of power-wielding for any reason.

And yet those who have voiced concerns about this kind of thing are often labeled as conspiracy theorists, fear-mongers and worse.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 22:26

Nigel Farage has a problem. He keeps making friends with people who get jailed. Often for sexual assault or money laundering. That isn't typical. That's very abnormal.

To the point that he was investigated by the FBI...

In 2017, Farage was listed as a person of interest by the FBI in their investigation into possible Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election because of his connections to Trump, WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. One source said that "if you triangulate Russia, WikiLeaks, Assange and Trump associates the person who comes up with the most hits is Nigel Farage." Farage responded, "This hysterical attempt to associate me with the Putin regime is a result of the liberal elite being unable to accept Brexit and the election of President Trump... I consider it extremely doubtful that I could be a person of interest to the FBI as I have no connections to Russia

In terms of having no links to Russia, Farage was notorious for never turning up to the European Parliament. He had the worst voting record of over 700 MEPs. With one very notable exception.

He would ALWAYS turn up for votes related to restricting Russian propaganda or just anything which might be perceived as 'anti-Russian'. Without fail.

A few years back claims that Russia interfered with the 2016 election in the US were panned. But in the years since more and more evidence to the contrary emerged. It was connected to troll farms and social media. Even more recently Wagner have indeed claimed credit for it.

Then were Farage's numerous unexplained trips to see Julian Assange to which he's merely said he can't remember why he when to the Ecuadorian Embassy. Odd huh?

Now, perhaps Farage is being treated unfairly because no one has ever proved a case against him.

However his choice of company really does lead to some interesting questions. A host of men with convictions. Not just opinions. And known interest from various international secret services. Highly irregular stuff that.

If you were a bank looking to protect yourself this adds up to more than merely having 'the wrong opinions'. And we don't know the pattern of where he's received payments from. I think you could argue that although there is no public evidence of it, it wouldn't be a surprise if there were a series of payments from now sanctioned individuals and institutions. If that's the case - and we have no way of knowing either way - a bank would be being prudent to close the account.

We don't KNOW this. Everything in the public domain doesn't go as far as proving anything but it does firmly build a picture where it would be a fair judgement call to say banks are being reasonable to be nervous of his known actions, opinions and associates to a level which goes way beyond mere 'having an opinion'. If the banks don't protect themselves they risk legal liability issues if something does later come to light. This is about them managing their risk.

There may well be stuff we don't know being shared with the banks too. We can't prove either way, but you might think that the FBI certainly have tried to look...

What we can say with certainty is Farage has said how great he thinks Putin is and is on record as being anti-ukraine. A position which very much is inline with Russian propaganda.

Now Farage has put out a statement saying he looked at opening a new account at seven or eight other banks. All said no. Why? That's not just because of his views.

All of this is quite separate to the claim made under parliamentary privilege by Chris Byrant. Which is questionable.

Farage IS mentioned in the 2016 US Russia report. It's pointed out that Farage criticised EU sanctions on Russia after 2014 Crimea invasion.

We KNOW the following:

On 22 July 2016, while attending the Republican National Convention with Farage, Cottrell was arrested by IRS Criminal Investigation special agents at Chicago O'Hare International. Cottrell was federally indicted on 21 counts for conspiracy to commit money laundering, wire fraud, blackmail, and extortion. Denied bail by a judge who branded Cottrell a "serious flight risk," he was detained in custody at Metropolitan Correctional Center, Chicago.
Cottrell's indictment states how in 2014, he met with undercover federal agents in Las Vegas, where he conspired to launder millions of dollars worth of drug money using offshore bank accounts. However, following a plea agreement in December 2016, prosecutors agreed to dismiss 20 counts in return for a guilty plea to a single count of wire fraud in which Cottrell admitted to explaining various ways criminal proceeds could be laundered

Then you have the following:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/16/leave-eu-russia-arron-banks-andy-wigmore

A leader of the Leave.EU campaign suggested sending a “message of support” to the Russian ambassador after the then foreign secretary made a speech that was critical of Russia, documents seen by the Observer suggest.
The material also appears to show that Andy Wigmore, spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign and the business partner of Arron Banks, the biggest funder of Brexit, passed confidential legal documents to high-ranking officials at the Russian embassy and then denied it to parliament.

The documents related to George Cottrell, an aide to Nigel Farage who was with him on the campaign trail for Donald Trump in July 2016. Cottrell was arrested by the FBI and charged with 21 counts of money laundering, bribery and wire fraud.

Damian Collins, chair of the culture, media and sport select committee, said that Banks and Wigmore appeared to have misled parliament and “what we really need to know is why”. He added: “It makes you question whose side they are on.”

Farage can talk about political persecution based on his views here but this goes way beyond that and there is a long long history of dubious associations that are no where near comparable with someone holding gender critical views...

First Direct and Natwest closing bank accounts for political reasons inc being gender critical
RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 22:29

Seven or eight banks refusing to bank with Farage smacks of secret service flags on his banking activity. Not his views.

A man whose personal office was run by a convicted money launderer.

BanjoKnockers · 30/06/2023 22:30

DontBeSoGlaikit · 30/06/2023 22:19

This is exactly why so many people are choosing to pay with cash and resisting the move to all-digital. It makes everyone incredibly vulnerable and as a pp said, it’s trending towards the social credit system.

We saw it happen in Canada with the protests a couple of years ago, when protestors had their bank accounts frozen.

Some people take the moral high ground and think this kind of action is justified when it’s levied against those who they think have ‘wrong’ viewpoints, like Farage. They forget that when they lie down and allow this kind of abuse of power (be it by banks, or governments as we saw during Covid) they expose everyone to this kind of power-wielding for any reason.

And yet those who have voiced concerns about this kind of thing are often labeled as conspiracy theorists, fear-mongers and worse.

This is absolutely true, and actually very worrying. You might want to look at Revelation 13:11-18.

Revelation says that, when the "beast" comes onto the scene, he will have such dominance that no one can buy or sell without taking his "mark".

Banking is moving in the direction of ever more cashless society with the advent of transaction cards. This entire electronic funds transfer system is gaining momentum in the drive toward a cashless society. This society could easily fulfill what Revelation says: That people could not buy or sell without the mark of the Beast.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 22:38

Remember Russian propaganda definitely is trying to use the gender critical stuff to stir up feelings for its own agenda.

Dig a little deeper on this story connected to Farage and you find a whole pile of stinking turds that this distracts from.

Farage and co definitely are known to have significant Russian associates - a lot has been written on this over the last few years.

Don't confuse the issue of Farage with banks closing accounts for views they don't like.

With Farage there is DEFINITELY a massive backstory he's not telling. It suits him because it's great for his social media and stirring up conspiracy theories in order to win popular support. This protects him to a certain extent by making it harder to arrest him and if it came to it - argue he can't have a fair trial.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 22:40

And yet those who have voiced concerns about this kind of thing are often labeled as conspiracy theorists, fear-mongers and worse.

Farage has labelled anyone who has raised eyebrows about his Russian contacts and finances as conspiracy theorists. Which is pretty ironic really.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 22:58

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-23/credit-suisse-ubs-among-banks-facing-doj-russia-sanctions-probe#xj4y7vzkg

The US has been doing a lot of forensic accounting into Russian money.

There are big penalties for any bank caught facilitating it and insurers won't pay out.

This applies across the US, EU, UK, Israel and beyond.

It's a huge risk for any bank to keep someone with Farage's profile. And it's highly possible it's not come from pressure from the UK either.

His Russian support, contacts and known laundering associates are the problem here. The US government are actively tracking money trails.

Credit Suisse, UBS Among Banks in DOJ Russia-Sanctions Probe

Credit Suisse Group AG and UBS Group AG are among banks under scrutiny in a US Justice Department probe into whether financial professionals helped Russian oligarchs evade sanctions, according to people familiar with the matter.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-23/credit-suisse-ubs-among-banks-facing-doj-russia-sanctions-probe#xj4y7vzkg

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 23:00

Also:

If the bank suspects money-laundering or sanctions-busting based on his transactions, the bank cannot give Farage any details as this could constitute a "tipping off" offence under the Proceeds of Crime Act. They are obliged to stay silent while investigations are underway.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 23:06

Oh and he's mates with Steve Bannon....

In August 2020, Bannon and three others were arrested on federal charges of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering in connection with the We Build the Wall fundraising campaign. According to the grand jury indictment, Bannon and the defendants promised that all contributions would go to building a U.S.–Mexico border wall, but instead enriched themselves. Bannon pleaded not guilty.On January 20, 2021, on his last day in office, Trump pardoned Bannon, sparing him from a federal trial. Federal pardons do not cover state offenses, and in September 2022, Bannon was charged in New York state court on counts of fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy in connection to the "We Build The Wall" campaign

Do you hang out with lots of people who get arrested for fraud and money laundering?

NatashaDancing · 30/06/2023 23:15

namitynamechange · 30/06/2023 16:47

They are NOT known for policing financially criminal behaviour. If anything they are known for facilitating it!

Yes, the naivety in that post is touching.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 23:20

From 2021

Turlough AT turloughc
A thread on Richard Tice's Tantrum about the Reform Party bank account being closed. One of his claims was that it was because of Politically Exposed Persons. He might actually be right you know....

I've identified potential serious red flag issues that may have affected Metro Bank’s ability to continue to offer its services to the renamed Brexit Party. /1

A major deficit of £1.6m recorded in the Party’s 2019-2020 accounts was not covered by supporters as claimed by the Party, but appears to be largely covered by entities controlled by Party Leader Richard Tice himself. /2

Under The Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds Regulations 2017, enhanced due diligence against money laundering is required to occur with entities connected to Politically Exposed Persons like Nigel Farage and current Reform Party leader Richard Tice /3

The party treasurer’s report in November 2020 claimed their huge deficit was “reversed” in the intervening period since 31 December 2020 by the “continuous enthusiasm and generous donations” by their “supporters”. /4

However, of the £2.385 million that was paid in donations and loans in early 2020, £1.4 million was either donated by Richard Tice's ‘Leave Means Leave’ or loaned to the Party through a company called ‘Tisun Investments Ltd’ that he ultimately owns. /5

The source of the deficit appears to be a massive £7.7m expenses total that is not itemized and appears under the heading “Other Expenses”. Accounts state they are compliant with Financial Reporting Standard 102 and accounting requirements under PPERA (electoral law) /6

However, both of these codes appear to require individual items of expenses to be both listed and costed especially if they are significant amounts. It is not clear why the expenses contributing to the “Other expenses” total are not listed or itemized as required. /7

Other monies passing through the account to address this deficit (£440k) appear to be supplied by Christopher Harborne whose accumulated £10m of donations to The Brexit Party was the largest in Brexit history /8

The fact that Mr Harborne had a second legal identity called (Chakrit Sakunkrit) was not widely known until his name appeared in the FinCen files leak for suspicious transactions in 2020. Mr Harborne holds a British passport in that name, and a Thai one as Mr Sakunkrit. /9

As part of EDD, financial institutions are required to take on board information in the public domain. Mr Harborne's second legal identity and his name appeared in the FinCen files leak for suspicious transactions in 2020. Metro would have to consider this under legislation /10

Given the information in the public domain and the size of these transactions, greater measures would be required by the bank to establish the sources of these funds with the ongoing risks associated with maintaining the Reform UK account potentially adversely increased /11

Other information in the public domain concerns the circa £5m in small donations received via Paypal during the 2019 European Parliament elections that would have flowed through this bank account. This was the basis for the #Manofthepaypal scandal /12

As well as its EDD requirements with PEPs, the bank is required to carry out EDD on transactions that may include anonymity, and new delivery mechanisms (like a political party amassing large donation totals via processing vast amounts of small payments) /13

Although the Brexit Party are required to give accurate information to the electoral commission they told them they had systems in place to record permissibility for these donors, a claim apparently contradicted by the electoral commission after these systems were inspected. /14

Incredibly, 10% of the number of all impermissible donations recorded in the UK over the last decade, happened within 6 days of the Party being instructed to record these donors’ addresses. Information from the Electoral Commission would have to be considered during EDD. /15

Under EDD, banks are required to consider the reputation of the client or beneficial owner in a PEP relationship. The client is not a Political Party but a company called ‘Reform UK Party Limited’. /16

The person of significant control of the company is former party leader Nigel Farage. For most of this time Farage as party leader could not be fired (by the Party Constitution) and was thus leader for life of the Party /17

Mr Farage’s reputation particularly around political finances is extremely troubling. Political parties and organizations he has led such as UKIP, The EFDD (European Parliament grouping), The Leave.EU campaign have all been embroiled in financial scandals. /18

According to ‘Private Eye’, Brexit/Reform Party were subsequently refused the right to form a new party by the Electoral Commission over funding structure issues. Banks are required to take such maters on board when assessing risk of continuing a relationship with the Party /19

Four banks refused the Brexit Party before Metro Bank took them on. ALL OF THE ABOVE happened since that decision. Consider that Metro Bank were embroiled in a scandal in 2019 themselves. More pressure now to follow these regulations. Clown Party had to go /20

Here we have a company called 'The Brexit Party' changing it's name to 'The Reform Party LIMITED'.

And another company called 'Reform UK Party' that changed it's name to 'The Brexit Party Limited'

The bank account would be for the former, but what's going on here? /21

It is likely 'The Reform Party' had their bank closed due to concerns their bank had under Money Laundering legislation.

At least people have some fact based opinion to counteract the posturing and nonsense /22

Looks like neither Farage nor Tice have the ability to set up a new Party or hold a bank account for the existing one. A definitive end for UK Political Party involvement for Farage and Tice? Looks like it... /ends

Financial Institutions must perform Enhanced Due Diligence on all such accounts. It's preventative and doesn't imply guilt (the FCA is clear on that). If a bank was to take action including closing an account: that action would be based on risk not guilt. Fair to state.

Note tweet 20 - Four banks refused the Brexit Party before Metro Bank took them on. The Reform Party had it's bank account shut down. Farage was the main named individual for the Reform Party having leadership for life under the party constitution.

Odd that. For a political party in the democratic UK.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 23:23

Ultimately:

DW AT DWwork2
Farage's problem is more that he's had so many dealings with very dodgy people & organisations that I very much doubt he knows the true provenance of most of the money going through his bank account. The banks have finally taken fright about being complicit in it

^^

FedgeHund · 30/06/2023 23:25

BanjoKnockers · 30/06/2023 22:30

This is absolutely true, and actually very worrying. You might want to look at Revelation 13:11-18.

Revelation says that, when the "beast" comes onto the scene, he will have such dominance that no one can buy or sell without taking his "mark".

Banking is moving in the direction of ever more cashless society with the advent of transaction cards. This entire electronic funds transfer system is gaining momentum in the drive toward a cashless society. This society could easily fulfill what Revelation says: That people could not buy or sell without the mark of the Beast.

I mentioned this too this afternoon in real life.

I did not think Mumsnet would be interested though.

I now see an odd Tweet from Lawrence Fox about Barclays. It mentions Tuesday July 1st, Saturday is the 1st of July, it could be a Barclays typo.

Do you think celebs are having us on then with these cancelled bank accounts? If so I flipping fell for it earlier.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2023 23:29

Jim Grace at mac_puck
People are finding Farage's banking problems funny.

They don't realise what is happening: there is something in his financial affairs that means no bank will touch him.

Farage is desperately trying to get out in front of a story, like Matt Elliot when he was found guilty.

1/

If you ask anyone in PR what should a client do who is bang to rights - the footballer with the drunk driving case; the MP with the pregnant secretary; the celeb and coke sting - and they will say "break the story yourself before someone else does - YOU frame the narrative!"

2/

Whatever Nigel has been up to, it is too hot for even London banks to handle.

That is the story here: what has Farage been up to, and what happens when you pull on that thread?...

3/

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/07/2023 00:35

Thanks Redtoothbrush. I wonder how long he'll continue his sterling work at KGB News?

Kucinghitam · 01/07/2023 06:47

Thanks @RedToothBrush - your balanced insights are always so helpful!

Kennykenkencat · 01/07/2023 07:28

CriticalCondition · 30/06/2023 18:30

Private bodies which provide essential 'public' services like banking, energy/utilities, comms and transport should be politically neutral. These services are as important as the healthcare, policing and education provided by state bodies. EVERYONE should have access to these things.

The way things are going, I think there should be legislation to safeguard this.

Otherwise BigComms PLC could cut off my mobile or broadband because my political views don't 'align with their values'.

Given the BBC’s behaviour I think impartiality sailed out of the window a long time ago.

I swear I am not a conspiracy theorist but the few occasions where I see the news or programmes on tv or glance at the newspaper headlines I feel sometimes that a lot of what is being fed to the general public is propaganda

People put a lot of faith in statistics they read on the internet.

I swear that certain figures are made up to prove a point.

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