AGP's v women in female spaces

[YorkshirePuddingsGreatestFan]

Are there any stats anywhere showing how many cases there have been of AGP's causing distress and harm to women/children in female spaces in the UK?

I'm arguing with a man online who knows a nice transwoman, so that means all trans people are nice and I have nothing to worry my pretty little face about 🙄

No. Because how would you collect that data?

you can use YouGov data though on how few people accept males into the singles sex spaces.

Ask him why the % of transwomen prisoners who are rapists, sex offenders etc. is far higher than the % of male prisoners.

At the end of the day, a male who says he’s a woman should use the toilets that all other males use.
That’s the only argument you need. Tell him to jog on 🤣

True, except “transwomen” are also male

They aren't even collecting crime data on males identifying as trans; it is getting lumped in with women.

Anytime soon we may be faced with a sudden upturn in sex crimes committed by 'women' that those of us born female will be challenged about by the manosphere, claiming 'see, women are big sexual predators too'!

And despite being a recognised mental illness, I don't think you're allowed to name autogynaephilia anymore because... um.... you know

Thanks all.

I'm sick of being mansplained to. Apparently there is no risk of letting men into women's spaces as apparently there's only a "very very small number" of predators doing this and they would attack women anyway, so it's better that we're all kind and respectful of men who want to be in female spaces 🙄

Remember the BBC reporting the increase of women committing CSA?

“Between 2015 and 2019, the numbers of reported cases of female-perpetrated child sexual abuse to police in England and Wales rose from 1,249 to 2,297 – an increase of 84%.”

Here's Fair Play for Women's breakdown of that stat:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/sex_data_wrong/

So a man is telling you that all men are nice and you need to accept that without question? Hah!

You are asking for the wrong information. It doesn't matter if all transwomen are nice, how are you to determine who is a nice person and who is pretending. Do they have a flashing light above their head? A badge from the "this is a nice person" department?

Women everywhere would love the inside knowledge of who to trust implicitly by looking. Your online male friend needs to share that information, it could save lives.

Irritating isn't it?

Your desire isn't enough. You have to justify it. And you have to justify it in the teeth of a stupid argument.

Men commit 98 percent of all sex crime. Transitioning doesn't lessen this percentage. In fact it would appear to increase it.

Any man deliberately demanding access to women without their consent is already a predator.

And, of course, it is all about access to the women. It's nothing to do with access to the space. Without the women in it, the space would be irrelevant. It would just be a room. The women's presence is crucial for the validation. Hence the rejection of a third, gender neutral, space.

You can argue with men like this, all the live long day. Because you are a second-class human, there to provide support, and therefore what you want doesn't matter.

And it's got little to do with the intentions of the men in question. I don't want to disrobe in front of my father-in-law or my son's best mate. And they're lovely.

As the saying goes, good men stay out so that bad men stand out. Tell the person you're talking to that he is one of the bad men.

And the answer is no.

It may be a very very small number of men taking advantage but how many women and children being raped is OK to validate a pretty small number of transwomen's feelings? What is the ratio? Who decides that 4 raped women a year is OK to save 400 men from hurt feelings? Can we at least discuss and ask the main political parties to put numbers in their manifestos so we know what we're voting for?

We all know it isn't a very small number, but is it OK even if it were?

It's only a small percentage debatable of adults who abuse children so should we scrap DBS for people who want to work in schools? Ian Huntley only hurt two children, a very small number, should we stop checking future Ian Huntleys?

As soon as we explore and say this out lous it becomes obvious how batshit and wrong it is

And yes, stats wise transwomen prisoners offend at a higher rather than any other cohort so we extra need to keep them out. Or maybe it's not the transwomen, it's the bog standard unspecial men who pretend to be trans to get access to females once in prison... I think the latter is more likely, but the answer is the same: keep them out.

I think either the Times or Telegraph did a feature on how the number of secret perv camera cases (installed by men) increases in mixed sex toilets?

The 'small number' argument means that all women and girls lose their rights to single sex spaces, sports, etc, for a tiny number of men.

Sexist claptrap.

Say to him great. That's lovely that only a tiny number of women, like Karen White's victim - oh she can't have children now can she, from his multiple rapes on her while identifying into a women's mental health ward - have suffered horrible life changing harm from letting male people take female only facilities away from women.

But what are we going to do with all the female people excluded from female facilities now because they can't share a mixed sex space, regardless of how lovely and harmless the male person is? Or how the male person feels inside?

I mean, to say those women don't matter, you'd have to be racist and ableist and with a whole lot of religious intolerance as well as misogynist, because in essence you're saying it's fine for some women of different faiths, cultures, traumas, disabilities, vulnerabilities to have no access to anything at all, if it means that men can have their free choice of all the provisions, and express their best lives/actualise their inner selves/ enjoy being them.

I mean only a total prick with a yen for male supremacism would say this is ok and 'inclusive'.

And let's then unpack male people using female people's bodies for their own private agendas and personal satisfaction. I mean yes, only a few (hopefully, the body count does keep rising) women will be used to the point of actual convicted rape, but even the nice one just wanting to pee in a room full of women with their knickers down is using every woman's body in that space as a prop in their personal self expression, and a fair amount of those men are getting sexual kicks from this. Easily evidenced by the tampons up the bum, wanking in cubicles with door open, walking around naked yada yada all over social media by those men advertising what they're doing and why they're doing it.

Are women walking sex toys for men?

Are we all down for women being walking resources that don't have a right to say no to being used by any random man that feels entitled to them?

Again, only a total prick sees women as subhuman walking sex resources that have no business saying no to any man that wasn't to use them.

Women say no. That should be enough.

We don't need to JADE - justify, argue, defend or explain. Women often find it hard, myself included, to do this.

Not to mention, a bit grim really, a man with no skin in the game helping other men to take single sex facilities away from women, and telling you that women's voices and protests are irrelevant.

What's his justification for that? Other than being a misogynist arse who's quite enjoying seeing women put in their place and men winning?

My husband is a nice bloke, but I'm not having him come into the women's loos.

Ask him how he would draft a law that allows the nice trans woman in but keeps AGPs out.

This.

If it's a very small number, that is precisely why they should be told, "Sorry, but you're collectively less important than 51% of the population."

In prison the percentage of men in for sex offences is 17%, for women it's 4% for trans women it's around 50%. So either men who identity as women are more likely to commit sex offences OR men who commit sex offences are happy to identify as women. Either way it's not a group of men who should be given the special privilege of free access to spaces where women and children are vulnerable.

And as the old adage goes - if you create a 'sacred caste' and give them access to vulnerable women and children, that group will attract preditors.

Show him TransCrime UK...

How about this: Women say NO to men in women's spaces. No reason necessary. then tell him to F off

None of my friends have reported any of the (many) sexual assaults and even rapes we've experienced between us. Who on earth would report being made to feel uncomfortable by a man in our spaces? Not even before males with special identities became extra protected by the police. We leave. Some of us probably fawn. Some of us freeze but we won't return. This rainbow misogyny is pretty similar to the old misogyny.

He's not interested in stats. Ask him why he's so keen for men to get access to spaces where women and children are undressed and vulnerable.

Like this.

OP Here is that Yougov study that often gets rolled out in error on MN by people who look at Page 13 and not page 17.

docs.cdn.yougov.com/74l25pslh3/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

The relevant pages are page 13 for where 45% (not this is not more than half) women say that males should have access to female toilets because of their feelings. Only 31% of males. A large % of 21% in each sex don't know what they feel about it.

Page 17 makes it clear that the males have not had surgery and that figure falls to 34% and 24% of male respondents agreeing. And even higher % that don't know how they feel about it.

It is the significant drop that tells the story.

Each year though, the numbers of women saying no for a question like on page 13 is dropping.