Heads should stop teachers allowing children to identify as cats, says No 10

[IwantToRetire]

The spokesman said that teachers should not teach “contested opinions as facts” and called for headteachers to intervene in extreme cases.

“It would not be right to comment on the actions of a specific individual or a specific school without knowing the full details, but we understand why these reports will be concerning for parents,” the spokesman said.

“In broad terms, teachers have a responsibility to encourage their students to engage respectfully with those they disagree with.

“They should also not be teaching contested opinions as fact, shutting down valid discussions and debates.

“It’s important parents and carers are reassured that children aren’t being influenced by personal views of those teaching them. Any example that strays from this would be wrong and we would expect headteachers to act.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/20/rye-college-children-neo-pronouns-cats-moons-rishi-sunak/

Unlike the headline the article makes it clear that a "spokesman" (how old fashioned and sexist shouldn't that be spokesperson?!) has said this so Sunak may or may not have a public opinion about this ...

But the Telegraph seems to be keen to keep the issue of self identifying on their front pages.

When I first heard about children doing this I thought (hoped) that it was younger children making fun of the trans generation, but seems not.

NB article is behind a paywall but can be read at https://archive.ph by entering the Telegraph URL above into the box.

(The cat in picture below looks very cross. Probably feels the same way GC women feel - outraged at the notion that some young human could in any way know or speak with experience based knowledge about being a cat!)

When you listen to the interchange, the 13 year old girls sound far more like the adult than the teacher who sounds petulant, bullying and unsure of her ground.

I suppose having an argument based in logic and scientific reality will help, but those girls are utterly awesome.

I disagree on the latter. It is serious and needs to be highlighted

When I say centre left is mostly silent or complicit I mean the media or politicians

There are far fewer in that space speaking out - see articles, journalists and the debate. And also active TRA politicians, particularly those who lead

This is similar in other countries, it’s not just a U.K. issue

I know people on here who are centre left who do care as I do though

Sorry Lady but if you're saying stop talking about this because it's a distraction - no.
Most / many of use were guardian reading lefties until all this happened. The reasons it's got to such insane levels is because women (and many men) have been harassed, bullied, thrown out of labour / lib dems and told to shut up about child safeguarding and women's rights. The divisions are already there - those who think that it's fine to sacrifice children to a lifetime of infertility, drugs and surgery because ....kindness, reasons, trans rights... and those of us who think that children's rights and safety are important.

I didn’t say stop talking because it’s a distraction. That’s just not what I said at all. But I am saying this alignment with the centre right or whatever is a distraction and apology for the sorry state we’re in. It will attract some and alienate others.

I gave the example above about DD’s friend being a ladybird. I know it happens. FWIW I think the trend is passing, DDs are at all girls school, go to activities etc and haven’t talked about this in ages. I did wonder if it’s because it’s ‘normalised’ and no longer shock value for them, but it seems it’s just moving on.

most of all it's about this lack of transparency and loss of trust. And honestly I don't see why this is proving just so hard to remedy.

Saville, trans, Maternity, blood sandals, it's on going, humans are not all good.

There was an ex builder MP at the Westminster debate on biological sex, he spoke about health and safety trip hazards being removed. Public services are not removing human trip hazarda. Their colleagues in different class rooms and wards will swear blind their colleagues are all perfect and both DARVO service users.

Nobody want a to deal with the rot, they should be psychologically assessed before the taxpayers waste training money on them. Litigation for the damage they create, then benefits for their victims costs the taxpayers a fortune. They are also partly responsible for high staff turnover, these people just should not be working with the vulnerable, they can join companies like Wickes instead.

It’s not a distraction nor apology it’s looking at what’s going on here and in other countries

There are plenty of centre left who care a lot, and I like there is common ground. The whole issue has put me off though. I might get back to it if they completely expunge gender ideology

I still have a bit of hope after listening to the debate the other day. And prefer to gain ground there so have written a fair few emails and will keep pushing.

@SunnyEgg What debate?

@MrsOvertonsWindow I’m not into organised politics so I don’t know what’s happening in the Lab/LibDem parties. I hope they’ll sort themselves out before we’re saddled with another Tory government.

Westminster Hall debate on EA. There’s a list somewhere of MPs who were good on biological reality. It was good to hear.

@SunnyEgg thanks. I’ll Google (I’ll work out what EA is :)

Soz doing a few things - here you go

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2023-0120/

Thanks, found it. They start with “Prayers”?!

What ever will they think of next? No don’t ask actually..

Labour and the Lib Dems do have power and influence on this.

For starters, the unions are a huge factor in this.

Both parties have given a massive amount of influence to lobbying groups.

If the opposition had done due diligence and said 'yes actually we need to pay more attention to safeguarding' how would narratives played out differently?

How would things have gone on social media?

Would lobby groups have the reach and influence within local government and government institutions that they do?

Would we have a dynamic where we were talking about kids filming their teacher whilst they talked about cat gender because they are afraid of challenging authority and being labelled transphobic?

Would parents be feeling taken more seriously and engaged if opposition politicians had listened to them?

The culture we have can not be blamed on the government in power alone. They could break where we are now, bit other factors have led to where we are.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/oireachtas/2023/06/21/rape-of-nursing-home-resident-and-other-sexual-assault-allegations-hugely-distressing-and-shocking-varadkar/

committed and to hold organisations and individuals to account for failing to protect people who are at risk

The Irish are going to start prosecution of individuals, the UK hinted after the blood inquiry they would also.

@RedToothBrush I don’t disagree that the opposition could have done more, but the Unions are not as powerful as all that. See how many strikes are happening in ALL sectors: doctors, nurses, teachers, trains. I don’t see it changing anything, the Tory government is just holding tight and not giving a shit. (I’ve lost more working days than ever in the past few months as I can’t get in due to strikes.) I agree Safeguarding children is as important as teaching or providing care, I just don’t think unions are organised well enough for this.

Remember the opposition is supposed to hold power to account.

What's particularly unusual on this subject is the extent to which the government has been left to hold power to account in various sections of our society.

It SHOULD be in control of this, but it's not. That power has to come from other sources and be supported. It doesn't come from nowhere.

And this absolutely is not coming from grassroots.

You always have to ask why it was this way around.

It goes back to removing human trip hazards, prior to teacher or medic training and retaining single sex spaces.

I suspect Leo with his conversion therapy, self ID and hate crimes laws, will twist this against the patients and staff when a Barbie Kardashian walks into the nursing home and Barbie has hurt feelings.

The point is that NO ONE was paying attention and NO ONE was properly doing safeguarding.

When the government drops the ball the opposition should be doing something and vice versa. But this didnt happen.

Instead power embraced this movement and used it's power to silence the people it's supposed to represent and moved to silence criticism.

That definitely has come from unions and politicians of all colours.

NO ONE wanted to examine how it harmed women and children.

I understand why it takes hold, here and elsewhere. A top priority has become inclusivity

It’s only now when we see proof of where it’s going with men in female prisons, or teachers reacting as this one did does it really get mass pushback

Yes there were some savvy women on mn highlighting this, and have been for years so all gratitude but it takes those clear shocks to change the conversation dramatically

@RedToothBrush I agree, we shouldn’t be in this situation. I’m reading through the debate on 12 June; it’s good.

Yes it comforts me slightly to think that as everywhere, it is the top down union leaders who have imposed pro 'gender identity ideology' policies on their members.
How ridiculous that a Trade Union will now refuse to defend a fully paid up member accused of transphobia...Unions may as well not exist.

We should never have had to have these conversations because the women working in various fields and with certain experiences shouldnt be outside spheres of influence and power.

This is where we all feel down. Lack of representation in terms of socioeconomic experience - instead we have a dominance of people from educated backgrounds without hands on experience in these positions without alternative routes to progression.

The feminist argument and background holds up here for a reason.

Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier. As Red says - we shouldn't be in this situation and the education unions are massively responsible for adopting a trans activist approach to the extent that teachers know there's no support for any adult raising safeguarding, the rights of girls to privacy from boys or even the mental vulnerability of children believing a fantasy. So they've remained quiet while vulnerable children have escalated to the extent some claim to be a different species - and nobody puts a boundary in place and says no.

Starmer & Davey openly state that some women have a penis - Davey very recently. It maybe that the Lib Dem's funding from a drug company has influenced him to tell untruths or it maybe that his thinking is severely lacking. I'm no longer interested.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4812368-ed-davey-of-the-lib-dems-women-can-quite-clearly-have-a-penis

I’ve read the Westminster debate from 12 June. There were a couple of inflammatory remarks, but overall very good points (including from a few Labour women, BTW what’s Lab/Co-op?). I don’t understand, however, what the outcome was. It just said agreed at the end, but agreed with what?