Irrationally annoyed about educated women who should know better peddling Cis bollox

[Farmageddon]

I didn't know what to title this, but is anyone else feeling like this lately? In the last few weeks/ months I have been majorly turned off people I follow on podcasts or youtube when I hear them refer to 'cis women' as though it's totally normal. These are well educated women, who in any other context would apply rational thinking, but why do they have to undermine their credibility with this shit?

Abbey Sharp - dietician on youtube who sort of dissects other people's diets, and usually uses research papers to back up her claims on nutrition and health. Also mocks people who follow faddy diets (that's sort of her style). And yet, when I was watching a video a while ago on the best diet for menstruation, underneath she had written the following grovelling apology:
NOTE EXCLUSIVE LANGUAGE- Gah I am so sorry, I was not thinking inclusively. This is something I have been actively working on (this video was shot months ago), and in fact, I just shot another video related to PCOS and was really careful to constantly say "people" and not "women". Will continue to try harder and do better!

Nice bit of self flagellation there...

Suzanna Lipscomb - I really loved the 'Not just the Tudors' podcast and had been listening to random episodes over the last few months, only when I got to an episode on menstruation in Tudor times, of course it was made clear this is about 'cis women'. FFS. What's even more annoying is in a previous episode her and the guest had been making fun of the ridiculous things that used to be believed about health in Tudor times (the four humours of the body).

Stacy Sims - Exercise Psychologist and Nutritional Scientist, has a PHD, I was watching her on a recent interview with Katie Couric about women's health in menopause. In the first few minutes, she talks about 'cis women' and I want to throw something at the screen.

Anyone else have examples, or shares my frustration?

No examples as I'm not awake enough yet just here to share your frustration.

It's such annoying bollocks. And the apologies if they dare to commit wrong think, it's just so blghhhh!

There are dozens of examples. Alice Roberts springs to mind, for one.

I do share your frustration, but it's more than frustration for me. It's white hot rage. These women know they are lying but they are too cowardly to take a stand for the truth. They are prepared to throw other, more vulnerable women under the bus for the sake of male approval. I am sick to the back teeth of them.

I instantly see them as weak and pandering.

YABU there's nothing 'irrational' about finding this annoying. Educated women beclowning themselves, they should be ashamed.

I know what you mean. I was interested in a STEM course recently for my child and on listening to the video where it was all pronouns and non binary references I backed away quietly.

100% this.

I don't think it's irrational either. I think it's perfectly rational to think less of anyone pandering to this bollocks.

In the same vein as TRAs shouldn't be trying to compel / police anyone's speech, I don't think we should be either.

I don't agree with "cis" but others are free to use it if they want to.

A friend of mine who is a vicar just posted a picture on Facebook of herself wearing a T-shirt saying, "Sisterhood, not CISterhood" and I just thought, "Oh hell no."

The trouble is they're not just using it about themselves.

Seems pretty rational to me, OP.

Anyone still espousing the ideas of this bullshit ideology is complicit in removing women's rights and threatening the health of vulnerable children.

I absolutely agree people are free to say what they like.

And we are free to draw our own conclusions about them based on that.

In my job I deal with a lot of medical doctors working for the NHS and every time I come across one indulging in this stuff I have to take a deep breath and plaster a smile on, and pretend it's not happening. I have to be nice to them as part of my job, but in my head I do wonder what on earth they are thinking.

I have a colleague who has put pronouns on her emails and I've had a few discussions with her about stuff. We were both very respectful to each other but she just didn't get my perspective. It's all about be kind, what does it matter, to her. Very intellectual and well educated woman, but she just couldn't understand where I was coming from. She is about to go self employed in our field and I genuinely don't know whether her attitude will serve her well or not.

Exactly. It's not irrational at all, OP.

I'm afraid I now automatically think a lot less of anyone who uses the term "cis", puts she/her pronouns anywhere, trips over herself to shoehorn TW into everything woman-related (that kneejerk "You ARE including TW in that, aren't you?" twitch), calls other women "terfs" and anyone who makes a big deal that they're being intersectional and therefore 'kind'. They never are. And their supposed "intersectionality" always seems to miss the axis of class and socio-economic factors out, strangely.

You are right, they are free to say what they choose.

However in some of the examples I have given, they are not just having a general discussion and throwing in their own opinion, they are talking as an educated spokesperson on the topic. And they just slip in cis as part of the 'expert advice'.

It would be a bit like if they just happened to mention that the world is flat, as part of a wider discussion on something else. I mean, they are entitled to say that, but it certainly taints my view of their level of critical thinking.

And to add to the annoyance, in ANY other situation, I'm confident these women would argue the scientific, researched, rational point of view. In fact, they have done so repeatedly in other ways. So why not in this instance?

I think with the women you mentioned it’s doubly annoying because they do have some critical thinking skills and are able to dissect or criticise behaviour and beliefs etc but then have this massive blind spot. Particularly if they mock the people with the beliefs without realise they are doing exactly the same thing in a different area.

I think part of the reason I'm annoyed is that they are women of a certain age. So not 20 year olds with no life experience. And they are women I previously admired for their intellect.

No I feel they are complicit in something that is harmful to us.

Yes, exactly. These aren't just women in the media, these are educated women who have gained a platform in part because of their intelligence and experience in a scientific or academic field.
And I'm sure if you asked them, they would pride themselves on their ability to argue critically. Except with this.

It they're not simply thick (or bright but too extremely busy doing something of genuine importance to pay proper attention) then my observation is they're compensating for something.

I see this with some of my own friends and acquaintances. Compensating for having had a sheltered upbringing somewhere small; compensating for perceived class privilege; compensating for previous homophobia or homophobic parents. These people have a lower cultural capital because of these factors.

Suddenly here comes a way to raise the cultural capital by uttering a few words and showing a special flag. Perhaps you need to defer a little more to some special males but that is just regular female socialisation and many of us do it without thinking. I think female socialisation also encourages us to outcast the bad females (TERFs) because the patriarchy frames women as always being in competition with each other.

I am still baffled that senior biology professorial colleagues put she/her in their email signatures.

I just can't bring myself to talk to them about it, which is pathetic of me,I know.

Are you actually annoyed with educated women? You know that education itself doesn't cure social problems. Educated men can still be misogynists.

Or is your irritation more about women in ivory towers who are prepared to throw away the rights of less privileged women?

God I haven’t heard of Cultural Capital. I’m going to guess it’s because I have zero culture myself. Is this like some kind of snakes and ladders game. You can climb the ladder if you collect victim or virtue signalling stars but slide down the snakes of you forget pronouns. That kind of thing?

Surely it’s worse than just pandering (which is bad enough)

If eg a dietician is doing a vid about diets to aid menstruation symptoms, that’s not just for ‘cis women’ it’s also for women who don’t regard themselves as cis (I do realise we don’t count) but that includes transmen. Are they deliberately excluded even though menstruation and the menopause may still figure in their lives??

It’s not about transpeople, it’s ONLY about transwomen. And yes, these educated women should be brave enough to apply their critical thinking skills

Fed up of this cis rubbish as for mocking medical history the Tudors bit I’m beyond fuming,🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ is history going to be rewritten and mocked now. I suggest these people read a few medical history books Women Under The Knife by Ann Dally for a start then there’s Confinement I can’t remember whose written this it’s only just come out it’s about childbirth in Victorian times.

While I think the 4 humors maybe mocked self flagellation seems to have come back into fashion.

I don't think it's lack of critical thinking as these are all very bright people, it's cowardice and/or wanting to avoid social media criticism, career advancement blah blah. Every time I hear anyone do this, I actively disengage from them. So for example I don't like Not Just the Tudors much, but if I heard this I would probably turn it off forever for this reason. It's their choice really - they will lose as many fans as they gain by doing this.

Sort of the same as people at work who have added pronouns into their email signatures at work when we are not asked to do this, and they are not deviating from gender norms in their presentation in any way. It just makes me realise that these people are not my tribe. It's something I can't overcome in a way which I don't feel about differing political viewpoints about other things etc. For me it just marks someone out as either dim, or desperate to be popular/inoffensive.