Chief Rabbi: “Don’t tell parents if child comes out as trans”

[RoaringtoLangClegintheDark]

Article in the Telegraph yesterday.

The extent of the capture is, as always, shocking.

When are the government guidelines on this ever going to come out?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/17/dont-tell-parents-child-trans-chief-rabbi/

Archive version: https://archive.ph/BOdP1

I do not in this case think it is ideological capture. Orthodox Jews in general accept that there are only two sexes, male and female, and that it is impossible to change from one to the other. However, they can also be hostile to homosexuality. So, yes, informing such parents that their child is gay or trans could be a safeguarding risk.

A spokesman for the Chief Rabbi’s Office said that the advice related only to disclosures about gender identity and not moves such as a change of name or <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/BOdP1/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/15/teacher-sacked-over-trans-pronouns-may-have-to-remortgage/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pronounss^.

This is purely about being careful sharing information about children. It is not about socially transitioning children in secret.

That's not how safeguarding children works.

Only the courts can remove parental rights - nobody else. Adults like the Rabbi who argue that they can assess the level of risk parents pose are professionally dangerous. Safeguarding is schools working in partnership with other agencies and yes, also with abusive parents. Children's safety depends on professionals following the law and - unless the courts have decided that they should be removed - working with those parents.

There's massive data showing that children alienated from their parents do terribly in terms of their future life chances on every possible measure.

Also don’t think it’s ideological capture in this case; more about offering Orthodox Jewish children a safe space to talk about their sexuality.

Curious as to what happens if a male Orthodox Jew declares himself a transwoman. Does the rabbi accept this and allow access eg to female only spaces & ceremonies? How is this in line with Jewish teaching? Curious about the implications of accepting a child’s decision that they are trans on their long-term participation in the Jewish faith

I’m unable to read the article, but I personally wouldn’t listen to anything this guy says. In my experience, Orthodox Judaism is widly out of touch with the 21st century values and is sexist.

It is ideological capture. He's claiming a "I / we know best" about families. It's incredibly dangerous to openly alienate children from their parents without a thorough inter agency agreement that this is the best approach. If you keep secrets from parents they're unable to safeguard their children.
The majority of serious case reviews into the deaths / serious harm that happens to children identify professionals failing to share information and making individual decisions based on their own beliefs. It's arrogant and dismisses everything we know about how to safeguard children. Shame on him.

If any individual or organisation thinks there is such a huge safeguarding risk about parents being informed about any aspect of their child's life that they will keep that information secret then it is quite clear in safeguarding legislation, the procedure for removing the children from their parents should be started.

Parents being uncomfortable about / unaccepting of a child's sexuality or identity is not a sufficient reason to withold safeguarding information from them as primary safeguarders (unless there is credible, tangible evidence they will physically seriously harm the child as a result - in which case remove the child).

It's quite clear in the Children's Act that parents are the primary adults responsible for safeguarding, not the school / religious leaders or whoever else. The threshold for witholding information from parents is incredibly high and is essentially at the point where social services should be intervening and removing the child.

Adults cannot say 'it's too much of a safeguarding risk to disclose but they can stay living at home'. No, those other so say 'responsible' adults are themselves committing abuse in this case as they are forcing children to live a double life, the mental consequences of which could be severe, and witholding vital information from those primarily responsible for their safeguarding, which could result in terrible consequences.

A key foundation of safeguarding is information sharing.

Anyone suggesting this pile of rubbish about secret keeping doesn't understand safeguarding or is seeking to undermine it. They're creating exactly the sort of situation - for ideological reasons - that lead to the several serious case reviews we've seen. Keeping secrets will not help the child except where they should be removed anyway.

I agree. Sadly. And I say this as an Orthodox Jew who is normally a fan of the Chief Rabbi.

On another thread sometime back, there were comments that the Chief Rabbi's Office advice to schools had been Stonewalled. Sadly I think this is the end result. And that in the effort to counter real issues with homophobia in the Orthodox Jewish community the Chief Rabbi has stretched so far.

Giving a very very reluctant benefit of the doubt - the guidance in question was published in line with a Jewish LGBT charity. I'm not sure how much input came from the charity and how much from the Chief Rabbi himself. The wishy washy statement from his office makes me wonder if they either don't have a clue, or if someone has twigged this is actually not such a great move and is frantically trying to backtrack.

Either way, I am disappointed.

Sorry I don’t understand this. Which schools does the Chief Rabbi have a statutory duty to issue guidance to? Does the Chief Rabbi’s office have a statutory duty to issue guidance to Jewish schools? Can anyone point me to the Act of Parliament or secondary legislation where this duty is conferred on him?

If he doesn’t have such a statutory duty, on what basis are they issuing this guidance to schools?

No great surprise.
We are talking about organized religions. You know, the people who tend to not tell the parents when they are assaulting their kids, never mind telling them when their kids are changing their names.

All the trans lobby groups take this line. They all openly undermine fundamental safeguarding of children and nobody in authority ever challenges them. It's down to parents and mainly women to remind people of the law and how safeguarding works (see dimorphism's excellent post above). Meanwhile the NSPCC, social care, politicians wibble and whine while ignoring fundamental breaches of safeguarding practice.

I'm not just disappointed - I'm furious 😡

A child who is questioning their gender is certainly at risk of harm - from those who would affirm without question. Fair enough to think carefully about how the family might react but that means encouraging the child to disclose themselves and talking about how they might do so.

When you say "offering [...] children a safe space to talk about their sexuality" what age of child do you have in mind?

Logically, how would

Duh...

How would this work? People are segregated by sex at Orthodox shuls - is a "secretly transitioned" trans boy going to trot off and sit with the men? In which case, it's not very secret, is it? Also, aren't they then trying to make the other men complicit in their behaviour, by hoping they won't make a scene, or get up and leave en masse? Some Orthodox men won't even sit next to a woman on a plane- its honestly not going to fly in shul.

There ideological capture is not of the Chief Rabbi by trans ideology, but of the CR by Jewish orthodoxy.

Just commenting to say how much I appreciate the very clear and informative posts about safeguarding.

It's incredibly useful to read.

Yes, I found the reminders about safeguarding incredibly helpful

Yes, safeguarding must be the priority. I am just trying to point out that his perspective is not one of capture by the trans ideology.

The stream of Judaism that is captured is the progressive stream, such as Liberal and Reform. They see it as equivalent to their acceptance of homosexuality. Dr Mirvis is the Chief Rabbi for the more traditionalist streams of Judaism in GB. They reject trans in the same way that they reject homosexuality.

I suspect that the Chief Rabbi's statements imply that he is concerned a child from an orthodox, traditionalist family could potentially be put at risk if their parents are told that the child is gay or trans. Surely that is the case in many communities, not just in Orthodox Jewish communities? How can the teachers know whether to share with the parents?

I must emphasise that NAJALT (Not all Jews are like this.) Many progressives are gender critical and many traditionalists accept homosexuality.

If PikesPeaked, as you suggest the Rabbi has not been "Stonewalled" then he's guilty of the same narrow thinking of a number of groups - that certain children should be exempt from our safeguarding guidelines. If he's worried about bigoted abusive parents, then he's in a very powerful position to call out the bigotry he sees and tell these people that they'll be reported for being a danger to their children.
What he shouldn't be doing is naively suggesting that the children are removed from the standard protection that all children are entitled to and that his faith will collude in keeping secrets from the parents. If they're abusive - report and tackle the issue.

Absolutely. I don't agree with any suggestion that anybody is exempt from safeguarding. I strongly agree with If he's worried about bigoted abusive parents, then he's in a very powerful position to call out the bigotry he sees.

Without reference to any particular religion, what would be best safeguarding practice if a child makes a disclosure at school about their sexuality or gender, and the school know that the parents are very hostile towards homosexuality or transgenderism? Would they inform the parents, even though they knew it might trigger conversion practices or the child being disowned?

Confidentiality is always a difficult call. A child expressing their thoughts about their sexuality - simply sharing their thoughts is unlikely to be a safeguarding issue. A 14 year old telling you he's meeting adult men secretly for sex - very different in terms of risk. A child believing they're born in the wrong body and saying they'll kill themselves if their parents find out - again - likely very high risk.

What matters is that teachers understand core principles - that they mustn't work alone, never promise confidentiality to children, always share information with the designated safeguard lead - accept that keeping children safe is a collaborative effort. There's no place for activists with egos reckoning they know better than everything we've learn over decades of protecting (and failing to protect) children.
Every case is different which is why everyone works with the core principles and then works out how they apply to each situation. The principle is that we work in partnership with parents and if that doesn't happen then there's a discussion and everyone is clear about why this is the exception.

And if at the end of this, professionals decide that parents must know, then again this can happen in all sorts of ways and using the support network around schools / children.
I'm not trying to minimise this - but some children do live in abusive / prejudiced families and unless the courts have decided they must be removed from their parents, then schools have to try to work with them.
Hope that helps a little - sorry there's not a simple answer.

Who gets to make the decision that a family is abusive / prejudiced, though?

This should never be a decision that is within the gift of one adult in my opinion, because if it is, then an ideologue can frame reasonable parental concerns (e.g. not wanting the child to rush on to puberty blockers) falsely as 'abusive'. We've seen this DARVO a million times with gender ideology where the parents - who genuinely have the best interests of the child at heart - are framed as abusive for having even the tiniest questions about a pathway that leads to sterilisation and permanent bodily changes.

Absolutely dimorphism. Being objective is incredibly difficult as so many of our judgements are subjective and based on our own experiences, values and beliefs. It's enraging how this has all been weaponised by adults with an agenda.