Jailing a mother of three - WTF

[Capitalismwantsyou]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit

I am extremely concerned for this woman's mental health during this prison sentence, and I cannot see how it serves anyone or does any good or has any merit whatsoever to imprison her. Nothing about this case should have been a criminal matter, it should have been about healthcare and mental health.

Her poor poor children. Deprived of their mother and left with family members who have 'distanced themselves' with known additional needs. For what?!

We live in a horrible dystopia.

Reading the details makes me feel like I'm reading a Victorian newspaper article.

And imagine the enormity of what you've done dawning on you, whilst in hospital receiving care and being arrested and police being present as part of the process.

How exactly is that in the public interest? I thought that was the measuring stick for prosecution and punishment

There was obviously some serious underlying issue if she felt unable to continue the pregnancy whilst also suspecting she was at a gestation too late for a request abortion. It's a desperate act. It shouldn't be a criminal one.

What about her poor poor dead baby? She lied through the whole thing. Her baby was 32-34 weeks, so completely viable. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Why is it necessary for it to be a criminal matter? It should be a question of the private mental health of this woman, not a public criminal matter resulting in a possible jail sentence of up to life in prison.

And no one is saying that it isn't terribly sad about the loss of the baby. Every single aspect of this case is tragic.

She lied outright to gain the pills, she thought she was 28 weeks (still illegal) and was actually 32+

She broke the law using emergency measures for the pandemic to get the pills. The sad thing is that this may scupper hope of women (who are under 12 weeks) getting hold of the pills without a scan

Nothing good will come of jailing her. I hope it can be overturned quickly.

Because it's not in societies interest to be able to go around killing near term babies.

I didn't suggest that it should be. I'm asking why does this therefore need to be a criminal matter? When it could be handled as a health matter for the woman concerned. Who does it benefit to punish this woman (and her children, 3 of them) by giving her a serious criminal record and putting her in prison for 14 months?

Never mind the fact that near term babies can be aborted, legally, in the UK. Just not in this circumstance.

Desperately sad case, and she surely should have been dealt with as a woman in mental health crisis rather than a criminal.

She purposely killed someone. Many would think her treatment was lenient. The law does usually punish such behaviour.

Her poor poor baby is of course at the forefront of everyone's minds.

But that compassion for the unborn's death can be extended to her loving children who need her, and to the woman who was in a state of extreme distress (and still is).

How does jailing her, further traumatising her and without doubt damaging her relationship with her children and their sense of safety and stability help anyone here?

Why does she have to be imprisoned and prevented from parenting her existing children? Do you believe that other options shouldn't have been sought? Community service for eg. She clearly needs mental health treatment and support, not locking up.

The unintended consequences and costs to society of this being criminalised and dragged through the courts will be legion, and could have been avoided.

This. I am pro choice but killing a 32-34 week old baby is awful. A jail term is appropriate.

No, she didn't purposely kill someone, because a baby isn't afforded full human rights as a person until they are born. Hence she isn't being charged with murder or manslaughter. And why in other circumstances babies can be terminated up to term if those circumstances make it necessary.

I get that you are very very angry at this woman for the action that she took, but that shouldn't mean that her behaviour is necessarily criminal, rather than a personal mental health crisis.

I agree with this.

How can effectively punishing her existing children be justified?

Start arguing that putting criminal mothers in prison is wrong because it punishes their children, next thing you know criminal fathers won’t be going to prison either. Get out of jail free card- be a baby momma or daddy….yeah that will bring up birth rates.

Some drivers do not lose their licenses despite having over 12 points and blatantly being dangerous drivers because it would lose them their job.
In this case, the well-being of her existing three children should be taken into account.
Statistics show that when men go to prison, the mother will carry on parenting but when women go to prison, the children are much more likely to end up in care or kinship care.

My heart goes out to this woman and her three kids, one of whom has special needs according to the BBC report. She was clearly taking desperate measures and now is going to prison and will have a criminal record.

please read the Stella Creasy and BPAS quotes regarding law reform in the article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169

Also to everyone who is confident about the Tories ‘knowing what a woman is’- well, yes.
The disgusting sentencing based on historical laws imprisoning this woman who was/is in an extremely vulnerable situation over lockdown and then the statement by Sunak’s spokesperson that existing laws strike a balance (balance…. are you kidding me?) means the government will not even look at modernising the law. So that really bitterly confirms that yes, the Tories really do know what a woman is.

So it may not be murder in law, but the reason we have a law against it, is presumably because it's considered similar to taking human life from a moral standpoint. (Ignoring where there is a medical justification which changes things.)

What if it was a man who had a breakdown at the thought of another child, didnt want it and hit the mother so the child died in utero.

I don’t think the fact she is a mother should really come into it.

I don’t think there should be one rule for childless women and another more lenient rule for mothers,

I don’t think she should spend the 14months in prison. (Her sentence is 28 months with half in custody). It shouldn’t be a criminal offence.

I don’t agree there she had a “mental health crisis” as there’s no evidence of that other than after she did the termination and has been full of regret, remorse and guilt over what she did ever since. Let’s not follow the stereotypes that women must be “mad” if they’ve broken a law. Especially since the madness is the law itself, not the woman’s decision.

It is absolutely appalling and I completely agree with Stella Creasey's comments.

Not everyone who does something awful is in mental health crises. She would have under gone psychiatric evaluation and it was decided she was fit to stand trial, although she pleaded guilty before it got to trial