Sonia Sodha: How did NHS body get the law so badly wrong over its rules on same-sex care?

[MondayYogurt]

Article link: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/11/new-nhs-guidance-could-prevent-same-sex-care-for-women?
Archive: https://archive.ph/mmT77

Twitter response: https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1667787877797724162?s=46&t=TMUOZCqGbx3Pv9MjeQqrig

Muslim women are bigots, you see chaps. Good thing they have white twitter beards to explain.

That’s an excellent article.

Isn’t the NHS Confederation itself in effect a lobby group? It’s a membership organisation for NHS bodies.

Another great article from Sonia S, lays out the issues with the guidance clearly.

Lol at Twitter numpty saying "1+1=2 is a law". None of them can ever actually engage, can they? Just fling out insults. It's all they have.

Spot on Sonia Sodha.

Am tempted to open a Twitter account to lend her my support.

In a time when the NHS is struggling beyond belief should gender/sex even be considered is a bigger question. What if the HCP hasn't declared their sex assigned at birth to fellow staff, by forcing them to declare it to patients is outing them.

Personally I don't think gender, race, religion etc should be considered in NHS care. Whoever is the most appropriate HCP provides the care. In time if and when NHS waiting lists have recovered and the service is funded properly then luxuries like this can be considered.

I thought that tweet was in response to the various replies criticising Sonia Sodha, rather than directed at Sonia? It’s difficult to tell with twitter though because of the way replies are listed.

The privacy and dignity of patients is a “luxury” is it?

Which category of humans do you think will be most disadvantaged by deciding sex is irrelevant as a consideration in health care? The category of humans who are the “default human” in research studies and drugs tests? Or the category of human who can end up pregnant after years in hospital in a coma?

Male sex for anyone who has gone through male puberty is always obvious in person. This document wants to force people to lie about the facts in front of them.

There is no need to 'disclose' it's bloody obvious.

Sometimes women pretend they don't know mostly out of fear and sometimes (if among the fortunate few females that have never experienced male rage or sexual assault) out of kindness to men above women.

The NHS could employ men who identify as trans to give special care to other trans identifying people which will suit everybody, no? Well no it won’t , because the extra validation won’t be included.

Vulnerable women who request to not have intimate care/examinations and the like done by a biological male should not be forced into it just as the member of staff identifies themselves as a woman. Arguably that theoretical person shouldn't be using female staff changing spaces and whatever else, but thats probably another conversation.

For me the rights of the most vulnerable patients shouldn't be superceded by a man's want for validation. It will actively stop some women seeking healthcare, and as we know by experiences as well as data and stats; women are already disadvantaged in healthcare.

People who use patients to validate them for whatever reason don't belong in healthcare.
The NHS has a safeguarding duty and its failing.

In such a time, spending time and money on working out how to pander to people's entirely unreasonable expectations that their pronouns and special status be recognised by everyone including people with dementia, other busy staff and sick patients is outrageous.

As is giving unnecessary physical treatments to people who are not physically unwell.

I was most surprised to find this in the guardian, and came to see whether anyone else was!

Yes I was hoping to see more supportive comments.

It’s the Observer, not The Guardian but they share webpages. It is confusing.

So what is your solution to the dilemma, if you believe that having to disclose your sex is a rights violation?

Are you expecting women who do not consent to opposite sex care to give away their right to refuse consent?

Personally, I think if you want to work in a caring role, where sex matters on some occasions, you have to be willing to acknowledge that your desire for privacy does not trump others’ right to dignity and fully informed consent.

The vulnerable person in this scenario is undoubtedly the patient and that important point seems to have been entirely ignored by those bringing these demands.

You fucking what???

A luxury to have same sex care? Do you have a problem with the right to consent who touches your body?

No wonder we are in such a mess with attitudes like yours.

It's not about "Gender, race, religion etc." it's about sex. Women and girls absolutely MUST HAVE the right to withhold consent from men who would be in a position to touch them and or see them naked. This is so basic I can't believe it needs saying.

The idea that it's possible to keep one's sex a secret from other humans in possession of sight and or hearing is patently laughable.

HCPs do not have the right to gaslight their patients. Male HCPs who indentify (whatever that means) as trans have no right to touch female patients who have requested female carers

Women are allowed to have, and enforce, boundaries.

@GailBlancheViola It shocks me somedays at how many people think women should have no say over who touches their body / provides their care.

Imagine being in a position where you are unable to see that many women, and men, may have a myriad of reasons for not wanting care from a particular member of staff.

Over the years I've refused care from both male and female healthcare staff for varying reasons, and my wishes have always been accommodated. Some times I've been able to state why I have issue with a staff member and sometimes I haven't wanted to disclose the reason. Yet they have still accommodated my wishes

It's frightening that this guidance is putting me in a position where my very valid reasons for not wanting care from particular staff members will now see me as bigoted and guilty of wrongthink.

It's my body. I get so say who touches it/ treats me.

👏👏👏

What if the HCP hasn't declared their sex assigned at birth to fellow staff, by forcing them to declare it to patients is outing them.

I don't think people should be able to conceal their sex from other people by law, therefore I don't think "outing" is a concern.

And sex isn't assigned at birth, it's observed. Try sleeping less and sciencing more.

Only if all guardian articles were as well thought out, I might actually start reading it again

Do you have any evidence whatsoever, sleepyscientist, that the right to same-sex care would have an effect on waiting lists? This isn't an issue of which consultant should assess your x-rays or prescribe your anti-cancer medication or remove your appendix. It is an issue of smear tests, personal cleaning, helping someone on or off a commode,etc, etc. You think women should compromise their personal dignity and safety for the zero-to-miniscule effect that might have on waiting lists?

When I was in hospital, seriously ill, one of the most distressing aspects for me (apart from thinking I may die, and not being able to see my DC for a prolonged period) was the proximity of strange males to me while I was in a state of vulnerability and undress.

When well and in the normal world I give next to no thought to the men around me, but when frightened, lonely, sad and in pain, I was hyper vigilant and felt so incredibly exposed and vulnerable. The male visitors of my bay-mates caused untold anxiety for me - them watching me as I shuffled to the bathroom to change my pads from bleeding or seeing me braless due to the wires on my chest, them listening as my gynae and obstetric history was discuss on the ward round....

It scares me to absolute fxck that people are unable or unwilling to understand WHY that caused distress. WHY the sisters and daughters of fellow patients didn't make me feel the same way and WHY not being able to acknowledge that means that these conversations about the actual medical staff are even more difficult to have.

I for one have been made to feel even more anxious about my health problems by the widespread display of complete lack of compassion and respect for women's needs and boundaries in health care. Whether this guidance comes to pass or not, without clear and unambiguous statements from grown ups in positions of authority to refute the idea that women have no right to even request same sex provisions and care, the damage will be done. The trust women afford hcps and the NHS will be diminished. And rightly so.

@sleepyscientist Having experienced sexual violence I can say it does matter to me whether the clinician is male or female particularly if it is trauma therapist or when getting a smear test. You don’t have the right to consent for other women and girls. It’s great that you don’t care but many women do.