Pride Month: Workplace have asked for anonymous feedback on "how can we be more inclusive?"

[Bornin1989]

I work for an SME who are big on their inclusive ethos (a good thing) but for the last couple of years have made a habit of asking staff, esp. new starters, to "State your name, role and pronouns". We are also "encouraged" to put our pronouns in our e-mail signature, to help trans and non-binary staff members feel safe and included. As part of pride month they've created an anonymous form to collect feedback on how to make the company more inclusive.

I used it as an opportunity to tell them about gender critical feminism, asked them to stop asking people's pronouns in company meetings (pronouns in e-mail signatures are non-compulsory thankfully!), told them that GC beliefs are protected in law and why GC is not transphobia. I also said I was happy to work alongside, love and respect trans and non-binary colleagues, including the use of their preferred pronouns, the same as I do with religious colleagues despite being an atheist.

I hope it will help senior staff realise that gender identity theory is an ideology that not all staff align with.

Has anyone done similar? How did it go?

If you are struggling with gender, I would kindly suggest some counselling so you can make these decisions for yourself.

Ah, you pulled this one on me before. I'm not struggling with gender. Again, I don't know if I have one, or what it is, because no-one will explain to me how to identify it. The few that do try get mixed up and confuse it with sex.

The fact that you believe someone might need counselling to truthfully answer a question suggests that maybe the question isn't as straightforward as you keep saying?

You said I should decide what my pronouns are. Given my situation, what are my choices? You seem to be saying it's sex as default if you have any uncertainties, right?

Well, yes it is your business if people think things about you but that cannot be helped.

You misread me. It's people thinking I am telling them, with my words, something I am not, due to the lack of clarity of what gender is and how it is distinguished from sex. Not them concluding something from my appearance.

Kindly, the not knowing if you have a gender or what gender is, is struggling with gender. I think you need counselling not to tell the truth, but to be guided into an understanding of the concept of gender and how that presents within your identity. I believe you are telling the truth that you don’t know what gender is or whether you have a gender.

You do not need to do any gender self exploration to decide on pronouns as they can be by sex. I’m sure you are aware of your sex? Good. Then just use the pronouns for your sex. No one minds.

There seems to be this argument that knowing people's pronouns is vital, but no-one will draw any conclusions about anyone's sex or gender based on them because it could refer to either and it's no-one's business which.

@HadalyEve
There's nothing extreme about rejecting compelled speech. It's virtually a duty to do so.
Disagree? From now on I expect you to say "transwomen are not women" at the start of every post to show how inclusive and supportive you are of GC women like me.

Nobody has a gender. It’s nonsense. We all have a sex. Some people are deeply uncomfortable with theirs, probably due to bullying in childhood. From this misconception, a whole medical industry has been spawned.

It’s all part of the same judging others by inconsequential details.

What compelled speech? Genuinely do not know what you are on about.

It would be lovely if anyone posting on here knew what gender identity was and could explain it to me.

Gender identity can take many forms.

For some men, it’s a special internal feeling that makes them feel they have the right to invade women’s spaces.

For some young women, it’s an intense feeling of dissatisfaction at having been born female and treated as a second class citizen, and groped and ogled, to the point where it’s worth considering mastectomy to stop it happening.

For other men, it’s a desperate feeling of wishing they had been born the opposite sex created when they were tiny children, too young to understand that their parents did not love them unconditionally, but disapproved of their behaviour, which was considered effeminate and therefore bad.

For some teenagers, it’s a feeling of rebellion, against society and their mothers in particular.

❤️🙌🏼

I bet it wasn't really anonymous. Nothing is.

No one is being silenced by not being asked their pronouns in a meeting 🤣 just like I’m not being silenced by not being asked if I eat meat, or drink alcohol, or what my marital status is or if I have a disability.

If meeting introductions go -
“I’m A. Hi. “
”I’m B. Hello.”
”I’m C and my pronouns are they/them. Hello.”
And C is not ushered out of the room for strong words then what’s the problem? Or if C just says “actually, I’m Them” when spoken of.

@HadalyEve
What compelled speech? Genuinely do not know what you are on about.

Please don't be disingenuous. Using preferred rather than sex-based pronouns when you don't want to and don't believe in GI ideology, but have to at the behest of your employer or for fear of repercussions = compelled speech.

I have attended hundreds of meetings / courses where we have to introduce ourselves. All we have been asked is to say our name and our role. Ive never been asked my sexuality, marital status or religion. Never. It absolutely is not necessary to ask someone’s ‘pronouns’ to virtue signal their chosen ‘gender’. It’s narcissistic at best…

I'm laughing at @HadalyEve recommending counseling!

That's a Friday night giggle for sure.

And while we’re at it, I’ve been on many, many (often useless) training courses, and at no point has ANYONE ever been asked to disclose whether they have disabilities- which would be useful for the people who are hard of hearing and need to see people’s mouths to hear what has been said, for anyone with autism who may feel uncomfortable with eye contact or any other disability that might want to feel safe and included as well despite the fact that over the years I have worked with far more people with disabilities than gender issues. Although how everyone identifying as able bodied actually helps disabled people I don’t know.

No. No-one should be referred to by the pronouns they prefer themselves.
They have names. If they don’t like their names they can change them.

Pronouns are a function in language.
Not a pick n mix on how you feel today.

It is vair pop to be a he Mon-Wedn, a she Thurs-Sat and nb on Sundays. Not my job to keep track of your mental gymnastics mate. I will use whatever pronouns I see fit (sex based) when talking about you. If you are there and become upset I’ll use your name. If I remember it.
Good luck with your meltdown if you find that offensive. I find your attempt at compelling my speech a lot more offensive, I can assure you.

Id be tempted to write, all our literature should be available in every single language, including Klingon, so that no one feels excluded...!

Righty oh Missy Nerd.
Oh don’t like your form of address? Well youse don’t get yin preferred form of address Comrade Turbo or Ms Nerd or pronouns. If that offends youse, too bad, youse can’t “compel my speech” as apparently that is what we are calling a simple request for polite address.

You don’t have to believe in something to respect others belief in it. If you want people to respect your beliefs, you should respect theirs.

So it’s not compelled speech. You don’t have to address people by the pronouns they prefer, but the natural consequences of that is going to be lack of respect for your beliefs.

Hmmm. No. I can't respect a belief which is clearly nonsensical. There is no account of personal gender which does not pop on the slightest investigation. I can, and do, respect peoples right to have a belief, but that doesn't mean I will respect the belief itself.

Shades of Reg, Judith and Loretta there!

That's an interesting idea, but I'm not convinced that 'respect' is the same as 'go along with'.

For example Muslims when they say the name Muhammed tend to (always?) add 'peace be upon him'.
Does that meant that I as a non-Muslim have to do likewise, or can I just respect their wish to do so?

If a vegetarian doesn't want to eat meat because they think it is cruel, then they don't have to, but if we go out for a meal together, does that mean I have to not choose the beef lasagne?

This is where the 'gender belief' system seems so different from other beliefs. It requires others to act as if they believe too. Even though it is confusing for the very young, the very old, ND people, those with learning difficulties who can't adapt quickly. It can be very hard for some who already have limited expression skills to do the mental gymnastics over pronouns whilst trying to formulate their content.

Why is inclusion and diversity only ever seen in terms of trans
What about racism, disability access, people with learning needs, sex, social class

I object to being describe or misgendered if you like as a cis woman and I certainly would object to being asked my pronouns in a meeting when its absolutely irrelevent because no ones going to be calling me she/her while they're talking to me at the meeting, they're going to be using my name

Thankfully, I am retired, but I used to work in a large NHS hospital employing literally thousands of people. It would be beyond ridiculous to try and remember several thousand self indulgent narcissistic pronoun variations of one’s colleagues, let alone mangle English grammar to use them.
Pronouns are sex based, not personality or gender stereotype based. Males are designated he, whatever state of bodily reality denial they are in. One cannot identify out of one’s physical existence and expect others to play along.