Pride Month: Workplace have asked for anonymous feedback on "how can we be more inclusive?"

[Bornin1989]

I work for an SME who are big on their inclusive ethos (a good thing) but for the last couple of years have made a habit of asking staff, esp. new starters, to "State your name, role and pronouns". We are also "encouraged" to put our pronouns in our e-mail signature, to help trans and non-binary staff members feel safe and included. As part of pride month they've created an anonymous form to collect feedback on how to make the company more inclusive.

I used it as an opportunity to tell them about gender critical feminism, asked them to stop asking people's pronouns in company meetings (pronouns in e-mail signatures are non-compulsory thankfully!), told them that GC beliefs are protected in law and why GC is not transphobia. I also said I was happy to work alongside, love and respect trans and non-binary colleagues, including the use of their preferred pronouns, the same as I do with religious colleagues despite being an atheist.

I hope it will help senior staff realise that gender identity theory is an ideology that not all staff align with.

Has anyone done similar? How did it go?

Definitely borrowing your approach for the next bonkers survey we're asked to complete, OP.... despite actually fitting into one of those new nutty categories I wasn't willing to fill in the last one as it didn't have a prefer not to say option. I wouldn't care, but the HR department in charge of this ballox is packed to the rafters with some of the nastiest most self righteous bullies I've ever met.

I have seen articles by trans people talking about well intentioned non trans people rushing to explain about their pronouns makes the whole thing uncomfortable to them.

If someone I'm meeting for the first time wants to tell me their chosen pronouns, in a situation of polite and reciprocal social contract I'm fine with that. I may use them, I may use their name, I'll certainly avoid intentionally using pronouns they themselves find offensive.

I do not want to be required to chant the Hail Mary or be named a sinner when I'm there to do a job. It would not be appropriate for me to go round the table and demand to know if each person accepts Christ as their saviour with obvious disdain, social consequences and possibly pressure and disciplinary actions for the wrong answer that they have another faith or are atheist. People's politics and faiths need to stay out of other people's faces.

99.9% of the time you can tell what sex someone is. Even on the phone without ever seeing the person.
(You can often tell who is male by writing style alone!).
So to demand everyone in the room states their pronouns is nothing but a declaration of adherence to a particular ideology, one that is severely detrimental to women, and to demand everyone goes along with it.
No thank you.

Also- by ten years time absolutely no one is going to be "non binary" because it'll be so out of fashion.

The practicalities should be a given. So sad all the hype and policy is rarely followed up with them.

The very idea that someone whose preferred pronouns may be different from those associated with their sex wouldnt tell everyone. Repeatedly.

But OP doesn’t address how she is going to know their preferred pronouns if the company does as OP asks and bans/stops asking people’s pronouns, as in giving them an opportunity to share them in meetings.

Oh don't worry - every time OP tries to discuss that person's work with other colleagues, they will halt the conversation to correct her.

Everyone in an organisation like that has been trained to rigorously police everyone else's pronoun usage in every single conversation they have, so there is zero chance that a trans or non-binary person who wants to control the way other people refer to them will be misgendered without it being loudly condemned by the rest of the organisation in the name of progress.

“I’m Sam, no pronouns”

Yet again, suggesting that people lie to keep the fiction going.

Excellent response. I work for a full on rainbow employer too, and EDI is 90% “support” and “allyship” for T and NB people. Equal access for disabled people is of no interest any more and any mention of it is met with lip service at best, and often there seems to be irritation that it was even being mentioned. My colleague was kicked off a committee after he dared to talk about how we could do better on disability inclusion. They were absolutely focused on courses on “how to be a good ally to T and NB” and the like.

The problem with pronouns is that some people use sex-based ones, some use gender-based ones, and if you have no idea how to tell what your gender is despite asking genderists on internet forums for years and being ignored, you don't know what you're saying about yourself when you're asked to declare them.

I'm female but if I said "my pronouns are she and her" someone might think I was saying I have a specific gender identity, when I'm not.

If someone could explain how to find out what gender you are, that isn't getting confused with sex, then it'd make it easier.
I'm assuming you're not going to engage enough to explain how one identifies one's gender, @HadalyEve , but maybe you can see why it's impossible for some people to answer clearly and truthfully?

The whole 'respect and love' thing really grinds my gears.

Is it a requirement that you treat all colleagues with respect in the workplace? Yes.

Are you required to love them all? Of course you're bloody not. What does that even mean? You coo at them? Cuddle them? Walk around declaring your undying affection? Send them valentines cards? What? We're talking about people, not pet kittens.

It's sentimental, patronising, Lady Bountiful tosh that dehumanises and subordinates and others. And yet it seems to be required. This is the only civil liberties movement that has ever actively seemed to want the pats on the head, the special care and treating as if they're much less capable than everyone else and to be treated as pets or poorly children. Disabled people, LGB people, all the other groups, just wanted to be treated exactly the same as others, as rational and competent adults, without prejudice removing equality of access and opportunity.

Some classic TRA-level argumentation going on here, ignore any points you can't cope with and repeat your conclusion as if that was persuasive in its own right.

You don’t need to identify a gender to know what pronouns you prefer for yourself. You can prefer she/her because that is your sex. It’s not a problem for some to prefer pronouns by sex and some by gender.

Everyone should be referred to with the pronouns they prefer for themself, but no one can know what you prefer if the OP gets her way and they are stopped from even asking.

Presumably, if someone is trans and out, they will request pronouns to show that. If they are not out, they will simply respond identically to anyone who isn’t trans. It’s their choice.

That doesn’t sound very nice, it’s almost as if it would be most helpful for colleagues to know up front if a person wants certain pronouns? Such as the ability to ask what pronouns they prefer at the introductions phase at the start of a meeting?

Oh wait, the OP wants that banned. So she’d rather the minefield method of finding out pronouns, seems very unprofessional and reactive instead of proactive.

You can prefer she/her because that is your sex. It’s not a problem for some to prefer pronouns by sex and some by gender.

So if my sex-pronouns are 'she/her' and my 'gender pronouns' are 'to be decided', which should I 'prefer'? Is the unknown one (which will always be gender) secondary by default?

How do I know what I'm telling someone about myself? Do you believe that people who use gender pronouns will know I'm talking about my sex, or vice-versa?

You decide. It’s no one’s business if your pronouns are by sex or by gender. As I say, the voluntary option to share pronouns isn’t forcing anything on anyone.

If they are not out, they will simply respond identically to anyone who isn’t trans. It’s their choice.

Eh? What does 'anyone who isn't trans' respond to pronouns? There isn't one answer, surely - could be he or she?

You decide.

But what are my choices? It's she or nothing, isn't it, unless I want a discussion about something pretty personal? So if I'm undecided I have to say I am a woman, which some people will take to mean I have a specific gender identity, which might be incorrect.

It’s no one’s business if your pronouns are by sex or by gender.

It's my business as to what someone will think I am telling them about myself. The fact they are asking face-to-face suggests they don't think my pronouns are related to my sex. There is a massive risk of misinformation here, which makes me uneasy.

I have never understood the pronouns thing as surely if you are referring to someone in the room you would say their name not She or He or They as that would be rude and would only refer to them by She/He/They if they weren’t there

If they aren’t there then they aren’t going to hear what anyone says about them anyway.

Nobody has pronouns. People have names. In English, third person pronouns are sex-based, not a matter of personal choice and the concept of preferred pronouns is just a way of compelling compliance to an ideology and asserting power over other people. You are insisting that they lie or effectively profess belief in the existence of GI and it's overriding importance.

Nobody can choose what they are.
If anyone wants to go along with the pretence that a person is the opposite sex to what they are, or sexless, in social situations - out of kindness or love for that particular person - that's fine. Forcing or encouraging employees to do it in a work environment is oppressive and authoritarian.

@Bornin1989
Cracking response to the survey, by the way!

I’m not insisting anything of the sort, OP has said
I also said I was happy to work alongside, love and respect trans and non-binary colleagues, including the use of their preferred pronouns, the same as I do with religious colleagues despite being an atheist.

So my comments are in regards to OP as she is happy to be inclusive shd address trans individuals by their preferred pronouns.

The fact you do not respect transpeople and refuse to use their preferred pronouns is an extreme view.

If you are struggling with gender, I would kindly suggest some counselling so you can make these decisions for yourself.

Well, yes it is your business if people think things about you but that cannot be helped. People will think things about you based on how you are dressed, your accent, your race, your behaviour. There is no avoiding this I’m afraid.

‘Everyone should be referred to with the pronouns they prefer for themself, but no one can know what you prefer if the OP gets her way and they are stopped from even asking.’

They could wear a badge with their pronouns on , if they were not those which a half blind goldfish could identify at twenty paces, but some ‘special’ ones. Lots of people seem to wear lanyards and badges at work now , so it wouldn’t be difficult to incorporate it into your ‘identification’. People who don’t care or just rely on other people to distinguish their ‘ sex based ‘ sic pronouns wouldn't have bother with that attachment.

I bet you are going to say that that isn’t inclusive, though, as the people who couldn’t give a fig might prove to be in the majority , and the minority might feel ‘hurt’. But think, people could change their pronouns as often as they wanted, just by changing the colour code. That would be a privilege. And loads of fun.

Asking pronouns is a declaration that you have a belief in gender ideology and you are ascertaining whether the others in the room are followers (or at least, will capitulate). There’s no practical requirement whatsoever. I’m in my fifties and have survived my entire life without once having to engage in such a performative act of piety.

The level of obsession with this pseudo religion is fascinating, but I hope it soon passes into history, when we will look back on this bizarre, but brief phenomenon and wonder what it was all about and how so many people were dragged in.

Hmmm and how does wearing a badge work in this day and age of Zoom meetings with no camera to reduce the carbon footprint? That’s so last century.