Single sex social groups / ventures - legal? Possible?

[EarthSight]

I've had some ideas for a while now to start a social group around a hobby of mine, and a potential business. This would be in the U.K. I don't want to reveal too much information so please understand why I need to be vague about some things.

I would be interested in catering to women only for the business for safety reasons, as I'd be the sole business owner catering to clients by myself. It's not a massage or home based beauty therapy, but that would give you a fair idea of the risk I could be exposed to.

The social group/s would cater to women in a certain age. I'd be interested in exuding men as it would be about a hobby that is very male dominated (I would estimate 70 - 90% in some groups). Not only that, but it tends to draw a certain type of man that I'm certain would really put off most female attendees, especially if quite a few started to attend.

So....my question is are the current laws surrounding setting up such single-sex ventures in the U.K?

I’m no help but I certainly hope so! Depressing that 5 years ago this wouldn’t have even been considered an issue.

Of course you can.

You can write a policy which explains why you are using the single sex exemption.

If you explain that there's already mixed sex accessible groups available you are covering that provision base off, it's not the sole service available.

Explain the situation in the policy, women being more comfortable without male members is a legitimate reason.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/guidance-published-providers-single-sex-services

It is legal to make something single sex if it is 'a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'.

If women are that underrepresented, increasing their participation is a legitimate aim. Having a women-only group (if there are already plenty of mixed or men's groups) seems proportionate.

There was a newspaper article earlier this week about how a woman had set up a "Women's Shed" based on the concept of "Men's Shed" and was presented as perfectly acceptable.

Also, though no time to find the link, Bristol SU had to back down on telling Bristol Women's Students couldn't have a women only group.

Here's the Bristol Students Union statement which cites the legality of single-sex societies and associations: https://www.bristolsu.org.uk/articles/wtb-update-affiliation-guidelines

I hope you’ve had confirmation enough to go ahead, OP. Good luck with your new venture.

I have often thought about Men in Sheds in all the discussion about single sex spaces. Rhetorical question: can anyone think of an example where a group of women or trans men have condemned their misandry and insisted on joining a group?

I actually think Men in Sheds do good work and show how it's possible to set up a service solely for a specific group. Good luck with your plans, EarthSight

A woman did attack the Shed organisation a couple of years ago. She identified as a man.

They initially said this wouldn't be for you, but got attacked online so much they gave in.

The guidance has been clarified since then.

I haven't read the Bristol SU guidance but, knowing something about them vs Raquel Rosario Sanchez, I wouldn't pay any heed to anything they claim.

That statement was the Bristol SU conceding defeat in light of their unlawful attempt to block Raquel's group.

Of course, the SU and the university subsequently did their best to stop a discussion by legal experts that she organised - it only went ahead thanks to last-minute help from the Free Speech Union in finding an off-campus venue.

They initially said this wouldn't be for you, but got attacked online so much they gave in.

Thanks @Hepwo - I hadn't realised that.

Locally to me a transman joined the city Gay Men's Choir. They seem to have allowed it without any public dissent, though I have no idea how the various members felt. I think questioning it here though would get you thrown out of the "queer" community, so I can imagine those who didn't like it might have just kept it to themselves.

https://www.sheshed.org.uk/about

Thank you for responding everyone and for the support.

It's the 'legitimate reason' that makes me nervous. With out this being defined, it leaves the door open for activists to try and take women like me to court to argue that my aim is not legitimate. It's sad and I shouldn't even have to be thinking about this in 2023.

If you explain that there's already mixed sex accessible groups available you are covering that provision base off, it's not the sole service available

Unfortunately. as I live in a rural area, certain hobby groups or businesses are very thin on the ground or non-existant.

There are mixed sex groups that do it nationally, most of which are based in or around sizeable cities, and I think there are definitely groups that meet online to do it (it's one of those you can do offline as well as online). However, there would be nothing like this in a 30 miles radius (which is one of the reasons I wanted to start this group).

There are ways I can sort of get around it maybe, such as advertising in select groups online or in real life in certain places. I just know with a good degree of certainty that if I start to post about the group online, that even if I say it's for women only, it's going to attract the attention of men I'd really, really rather avoid. This male dominated hobby is very close to another where there is a reputation of men being unpleasant toward women, sexist and abusive at worst.

The business would be easier to defend as there would be other business in my area that probably cater to mixed sex clients, and it would be for safety reasons.

"The business would be easier to defend as there would be other business in my area that probably cater to mixed sex clients, and it would be for safety reasons."

I don't understand this sentence but if there are "safety reasons" for making it single-sex would that not be enough?

You say you want to start with a "social group" and that might be a "potential business".

A "social group around a hobby" sounds more like an "association" rather than a "service".

As long as an association has less than 25 members then it is not covered by the Equality Act 2010 and you can include and exclude who you like.

Equality Act 2010 - CHAPTER 15 - PART 7 - ASSOCIATIONS

Supplementary

107 Interpretation and exceptions

(1)This section applies for the purposes of this Part.

(2)An “association” is an association of persons—

(a)which has at least 25 members, and

(b)admission to membership of which is regulated by the association's rules and involves a process of selection.

(3)A Minister of the Crown may by order amend subsection (2)(a) so as to substitute a different number for that for the time being specified there.

(4)It does not matter—

(a)whether an association is incorporated;

(b)whether its activities are carried on for profit.

(5)Membership is membership of any description; and a reference to a member is to be construed accordingly.

(6)A person is an “associate”, in relation to an association, if the person—

(a)is not a member of the association, but

(b)in accordance with the association's rules, has some or all of the rights as a member as a result of being a member of another association.

(7)A reference to a registered political party is a reference to a party registered in the Great Britain register under Part 2 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000.

(8)Schedule 15 (reasonable adjustments) has effect.

(9)Schedule 16 (exceptions) has effect.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/7

SCHEDULE 16
Associations: exceptions

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/16

EQUALITY ACT 2010: WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW? A QUICK START GUIDE FOR PRIVATE CLUBS AND OTHER ASSOCIATIONS
Government Equalities Office

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

Yes @Bosky I think the hobby would be more of an association, but it's fairly niche compared to something like tennis let's say, and I don't think I would reach 25 members in my rural area to qualify as an association. If it's fewer than 25 members, I'm not sure how then it would be classified.

A golf club in Scotland got bullied into accepting female members a few years ago. Are single sex clubs still allowed?

From what you said earlier I suspected that you would be talking about a small group.

The point, and the good news, is that if you have less than 25 members it is not an Association that needs to comply with the Equality Act 2010 and therefore you can include and exclude who you like.

It does not matter whether is called an Association, a Society, a Club etc. as long as it is under 25 members you are in the clear.

EQUALITY ACT 2010: WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW? A QUICK START GUIDE FOR PRIVATE CLUBS AND OTHER ASSOCIATIONS
Government Equalities Office

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

You have answered your own question :-)

Legally, yes.

Campaign to end Garrick Club’s 191-year ban on female members reaches the Commons
08 April 2022 - Evening Standard

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/garrick-club-ban-female-members-commons-london-private-b993289.html

Single-sex clubs of all sorts can be bribed and/or bullied into admitting both sexes as members.

Big business money that was once put to work pushing men's golf clubs to admit women as members is now put to work pushing women to accept males with a GRC or just anyone who calls themselves a woman.

Royal and Ancient Golf Club vote: The sad reason men are finally welcoming women to the game of golf
While Alice Arnold, a keen golfer, welcomes the decision of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club to finally admit female members, she is under no illusion as to the institution's true motive

"The key sponsors of the Open Golf Championship, HSBC, have made it apparent that they don’t want to endorse competitions at venues where there is gender segregation. Muirfield, Royal Troon and Royal St George’s are all on the rota to host the Open. One suspects that they will have to follow suit and admit female members if they wish to continue to reap in the financial rewards.

Social change comes about through many avenues but progress is slow and arduous. Money talks."

(Urgh!! Please fix this link-mess, Mumsnet!!)

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11108674/Royal-and-Ancient-Golf-Club-of-St-Andrews-women-vote-The-real-reason-men-are-finally-welcoming-women-to-the-game-of-golf.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.is/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11108674/Royal-and-Ancient-Golf-Club-of-St-Andrews-women-vote-The-real-reason-men-are-finally-welcoming-women-to-the-game-of-golf.html

This is why some men gloat about feminists "having it coming to them" now that women are faced with the problem of males in women's single-sex spaces.

Unsurprisingly, powerful men still get to decide the rules they want to live by. This story is real "pass the sick bag, Alice" material:

A woman in a gentleman’s world
JUN 12, 2021 - The Oldie

"On joining the men-only Savile Club, ‘Lady X’ was male. Though she’s becoming a woman, the club wants her to stay"

https://www.theoldie.co.uk/blog/a-woman-in-a-gentlemans-world

My previous post contained a link to an archive site. It should appear once Mumsnet has had a look at it.

In the meantime . . .

HOW LEGISLATION PROTECTS WOMEN-ONLY SPACES AND SERVICES: AN OVERVIEW
2016 by Louise Whitfield, Public Law Specialist and Partner at Deighton Pierce Glynn

INTRODUCTION

This briefing is designed to highlight the existence of legal protections for women-only activities, spaces and services to help ensure that these rights are properly understood and to avoid misinterpretation that may threaten their existence. The following topics are dealt with below:

• Summary of what is and isn’t covered by the Equality Act 2010
• When discrimination is lawful
• Women-only associations
• When discrimination against women-only events is unlawful
• The legal responsibilities of public bodies

This briefing does not detail all the protections available under the Equality Act 2010 for all groups in all areas – or set out the principles which underpin the Act – except where it is relevant to the rights of women. It is designed to be understood by non-lawyers. Further information is also provided in appendices in terms of the specific provisions of the Act and other resources.

Full article plus link to download PDF version:
https://theartofdissent.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/our-legal-rights-uk-women-only-spaces-and-services/

Looking at the guide, it seems as if your potential group wouldn't even be covered by the EA2010 and if you did grow to more than 25 members, it would not be unlawful to keep it women-only.
You might have practical problems if males tried to force their way in, but legally you are golden.

@KiteofUncertainty This is my concern. The legal aspect is only one aspect. It would be attractive to those who enjoy a related hobby which is done online, and I am concerned about local rainbow warriors with nothing better to do would eventually find out and hound the venue or report me to my work place. I think the nuance between small social group, association or service would matter not to them. Just the words 'women's group', 'women's only' or 'single sex' would be like waving a green light for harassment.

I kinda feel bad for all the gentleman’s clubs now.

Yes, @EarthSight, valid concerns. I suppose it all depends on how much the venture means to you.

The "women of a certain age" in your OP intrigues me EarthSight.

Is this a euphemism for "perimenopausal"?