How has the media conditioned people to 'be kind' re transgender debate?

[FriendofJoanne]

It definitely has; when I saw a friend a few months ago and shared the Sex Matters petition and said "but there are only 2 biological sexes" she said "but you can't say that any more".

I feel that we have absorbed the message that speaking against the trans rights movement is to be a bigot or transphobic but I'm looking for evidence of how this happened if anyone can help?

I've read the Shonagh Dillon paper (here if anyone hasn't read it) but that focuses on social media rather than mainstream. Does anyone know of anything which looks at mainstream media? Thanks

For years every time anyone attempted to talk about women and girls and their rights, needs, integrity and comfort - people would immediately tranlate that as " talking about trans rights". Women have not even been permitted the space to discuss their issues as women ( adult human females). That is why this board has been created.

People thought that women would just accept the colonisation of their very existence as woman, without comment, or witout push-back.

You don't get to push a situation without push-back. The intransigence and totalitarianism of the trans lobby has brought this situation about itself.

👏👏👏

Find the Mumsnet classification of these threads a bit odd, strange how in these threads feminism has been co-opted by the anti-trans movement. Maybe in every society there will always be a group of people with a problem with minorities. Depressing really.

What's depressing is that over nearly a decade, MN has been one of the very few online spaces where women can talk about how our legal rights under the EA to single sex spaces has been deliberately eroded by men.

Where we can talk about the evidence/research that children are being medically transitioned (with long term health implications including loss of fertility and sexual function) when if supported therapeutically the vast majority would find their gender distress will alleviate with time and find comfort in their natally sexed bodies.

Even here there are tight restrictions on what we can/can't say.

Yet in mainstream and social media we are constantly gaslight/misrepresented and labelled as transphobic because we refuse to back down and ignore serious safeguarding concerns that are frankly obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Who knew that putting a male rapist in a female prison would have ever been thought acceptable? Or a male sex offender in a women's refuge?

That it would be deemed "improper" to point out that adoption of a medical protocol on children (with no long follow up) and where one heathy child died as a direct result of intervention out of only seventy, is both unprecedented and unethical.

That women's sporting records and participation should be pushed aside in favour of male participation - because men's need to be validated is more important than any woman's right to sporting equality.

I don't have a problem with trans people.

I have a big beef with trans ideology and the people who flout it (many of whom are not trans btw) to disadvantage women whilst still enabling male privilege and those who peddle unethical medical treatments on children.

Bookmarking - lots of fascinating links here and I thank all you lovely women for letting sunshine into my life!

Women have clearly explained their concerns and regards for women's equality, access, inclusion and safety.

If you insist on positing women not agreeing to this as 'anti trans' then you have posited yourself that 'pro trans' is anti women - anti women's equality, anti women's access and inclusion, anti women's safety.

And you can hardly then be that surprised that feminists or women would have a problem with this.

It's the same as dealing with dreadful sexism at work. Women, feminist or not will have frankly spoken discussion about the outrageous sexist behaviour when they are talking together.

In formal work meetings however language is more tempered by convention.

You are seeing here the natural reactions of many women to dreadful sexism being imposed on us by the bosses.

Some women can't see sexism or just think that's the natural way.

The media did adopt a very sexist approach and it's taking years to get them to be more truthful about their own sexist reporting on sexist behaviour in gender identity beliefs and language.

A journalist told me years ago about media agreeing to adopt the Trans Media Watch style book, she was appalled at that sexism.

I will link the style guide.

https://transmediawatch.org/help-for-the-media

The style guide is here.

This tells editors what words to use. This group now monitor every published for transgressions. There are monitors doing the same thing to this board!

Waving at the monitors!

Can you give an example of the media "stirring up anti trans sentiment"?

It's not legally enforceable. They're just guidelines.

I am indeed. My priorities are the safety, dignity, privacy, comfort, well-being and happiness of woman and girls, the adult human females and the juvenile human females of this world. What are yours?

The only people qualified to share womanhood are adult human females, you speak about it as if it is some kind of club you can apply for membership to, it isn't.

I know but you can continually harass ofcom and ipsos or whoever, whose sexist nature was also triggered into applying sexist guidelines to be as sexist as the gender identity sexists wanted them to be.

It's not difficult to get a sexist media to carry on being sexist.

There's a movie title in there somewhere!

Sexist genderists; No more sniggering, we are actually women!

Sexist journos; Oh, okay then. You are actually women.

It wasn't difficult. It's a miracle that any of them have managed to unravel their sexist squared formula.

But Hepwo, my point stands. There is no compulsion to follow the guidelines. To do so is purely choice.

Fascinatingly once the perp is arrested and charged, correct gendering is being followed.

Sheeple reality fan, humans are sheeple. Get a few through the gate and the rest will follow.

This is a life lesson.

@RealityFan i think it’s a combination of the Denton’s playbook - getting quiet chats with people at the top and then guilting then with ‘it’s just like gay rights, don’t make the same mistakes again!’ ‘Marginalised and oppressed’ etc.

liberal people feel compelled to go along with it. Just last week a politician (can’t remember her name) in a house of Westminster talk on sex Ed was comparing not teaching children about gender identity to section 28

Stupid is as stupid says.

But it’s nothing like gay rights. I’m pro equality and fully support the need to protect trans people from discrimination and abuse. They already have that protection under the Equality Act.

What they (the current crop of activists not all trans people in general) want is:

1. the whole of society to deny the reality of sex
2. break down all binaries including adult v child (queer theory in action)
3. medicalise children to legitimise adult desire to change sex which is often fueled by a sexual fetish

Lol at middle aged white straight men in lacy lingerie being a 'minority'.

I mean if that's what sharing womanhood is to you, have fun. Meanwhile back in the real world...

The plan is in tatters though, like a worn out ballgown children have dressed up in.

It is fascinating how far it got, there was a collective rabbit in the headlights moment, then whoosh, it's as daft as it sounds and no, that 6 foot 4 fella in the swimming pool is a man.

As KJ Keen said, I'm not a vet but I know what a dog is.

In the end it's people saying things like this that turned it around.

Word 👍

It reminds me of that Rebecca West quote

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.
Rebecca West, The Young Rebecca:

A huge part of female socialisation is to be kind and share, smile, play nicely and don't be difficult and let the other children have their turn.

Imagine for a second there were no biologically male trans people/male allies involved in the gender identity movement and that dysphoria was an issue that only affected biologically female people.

Is there even the slightest chance that all the institutions would have been captured to the extent that they have been in a short time frame if it were the case?

That's what tells me it's fundamentally a men's rights movement which exploits the enculturated kindness of women - because only men benefit.

I can think of precisely zero advantage to women as a sex class to include 0.2% of UK men in it. Instead there are all the many things we are losing: our language, our spaces, our sports, our safety, privacy and dignity etc

Be Kind in this context has come to mean "Comply, or else" and if saying 'no' / not lying/ holding on to reality/ being aware of safeguarding etc distinguishes me from a doormat in this situation and makes me 'unkind', well, so be it.

Brilliant post.
I'm a man (apparently, says so on the tin).
Women join my class, say that they are men.
I lose zero sleep.
I'll still be stronger than them, more stamina, more aggressive, more cunning.
I'll still make more money, get more opportunities.
Will beat them at sport, not put out by the least by them in my safe spaces, toilets, sports, prisons.

Women, on the other hand...

No no no

I have no doubt that gender dysphoria isn't real fit those experiencing it. But what's the difference between a man who believes he's a woman, and a woman

For many on here including me, biology.
I am a woman not because I identify as one, but because of my biology.

I feel sorry for gender dysphoric individuals. But that doesn't mean I must be compelled to accept they are women, same as me. They have different bodies and unfortunately, that really matters in many situations.

WTAF? Women on this board are defending the rights of actual, you know, women - and arguing against being subsumed into a subclass of biological men. That is not an "anti trans sentiment", it's a pro-women one. How hard is it to understand that the rights of women need defending from men, regardless of how the latter identify?

No it bloody isn't! Transwomen have every right that every other human has - and I'm pretty sure that every poster here would defend their right to them. But transwomen are men (by definition, or what is the "trans" about?) and the extra rights that transwomen want and that no other men have are unacceptable.

Unless you're prepared to tell us what human rights transwomen don't have in the UK that anyone else has. We've been waiting to hear that answer for a while, so we're all ears...!

Yes friendofJo, when you see the word ‘persuadables’ you realise just how people are viewed. The Denton’s report is chilling in its manipulation.

I remember reading a few years ago about how Julia Gillard tabled and changed Australia’a anti-discrimination act to include gender identity. This was after she attended Yogyakarta. Now, I remember that act being changed and thought nothing of it at time. I had a career I was attempting to rebuild and an early primary school child.

Now I look back and understand. These were moves that were being strategically orchestrated.