Is girl guides single sex again?

[Chilledp]

Does anyone know if girl guides have applied some common sense yet? I.e. Just available for girls/ female children once again ?
I did look on their website but couldn't see any clarification. But that may just be me not being able to navigate to the right page, clicked on a few that I thought might clarify but couldn't find any info.
Thank you

Do scouts apply appropriate sex-based segregation at camps etc?

I’m not sure on trans rule however my daughter was in the scouts - and is now a leader - and they were super efficient over girls not sharing facilities with boys. She absolutely loved it and, after spending time at camps where both scouts and guides were there, she insists it is way more fun than guiding

Under 18s are not legally able to change sex so are not protected under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Males have no right under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to join Guides, they have the right not to be treated less favourably than other males without the characteristic.

Exactly. Their protected characteristic doesn't mean they must be admitted to the Guides, but that they cannot be barred from the Scouts.

Wow foxleasr is going :( . Apparently guides like having adventures in their units and near their homes (adventure is everywhere!)

Hmmm. This view just further entrenched the girls staying at home/near home and scouts actually going out Doing Stuff doesn't it.

Like pp I was very much for a female only space and loved it myself and wanted it for my girls until we left. I'm sad to see girls guiding basically choked to death from inside. By men.

It's still mixed sex

There is zero guarantee.

Guides absolutely isn't single sex in practice. It's openly transgirl welcoming, there's been some national stories about trans girls etc.

So that would mean it's the adult leaders who are 'protected' to enter the female spaces under the characteristic gender reassignment then?

Guiding is 'for girls' but they accept self ID. So no, it's not single sex..
In practice I haven't come across any males but it's probably a matter of time.
GG have announced the closure of British Guiding Overseas. Effective as of September. So that's 60,000 plus members they're shedding. And the closure of all of their activity centres. No consultation with members and complete refusal to disclose data they have used to make this decision apart from very general headlines.
It looks like an organisation in free fall at the moment. Plus it's owed something like £2.6 million pounds (and highly unlikely to get back) from hiving off part of their HQ in London to a hotel company that went bust (if I've read that correctly)
Very sad to see tbh.

The Scouts policy is certainly not clear - for sleeping its a bit woolly:

All young members should be involved in advance when planning trips away to make sure they feel happy and comfortable with the arrangements.
...
To make sure all members feel included you can:.

• Make a range of different sleeping options available to all members, including mixed-sex accommodation, single and multiple occupancy tents or dorms, or compartment tents with single rooms in them that a young person could discreetly use.
• Speak to the young person discreetly about what would make them feel comfortable and included. Avoid making assumptions about what this will look like, but be aware that having access to a private space may be important.
• Ask who they'd be happy to share accommodation with/

I note no reference to making sure the girls are happy if a trans girl wishes to stay a female tent!

But for toilets and showers they go on to say:

Trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities of the gender they identify as. (My emphasis)
...
These practical ideas will help you to make sure everyone feels comfortable:

• Providing mixed-gender (also known as ‘gender neutral’) toilets wherever possible

So certainly not the alternative in my opinion. Just because there are male and female tents doesn't solve the issue of where a trans child may be sleeping
https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

Those activities are what my Guides do, it's all dependant on what individual leaders feel capable of offering. I need to renew my rifle shooting qualification so that I can take them shooting again. HQ have told everyone to do more adventurous activities and less craft, my unit only does craft about 3 times a year anyway.

No boys asked to join yet but I would leave if my unit team accepted one.

Oh Beamur that's sad isn't it. I had hope it could be prevented. I honestly thought with us all saying safeguarding and the high profile cases there would be change but it seems the rot is to the core 😔.

I think about all the proper old school guiders and all the hours that went into making guides what it was and I feel so sad.

And yes the units round here are craft/faffing rather than proper adventuring but that divide will just become more apparent if they're getting rid of centres and encouraging "adventuring wherever we are- at home/etc"

Whats the end game. Did the transactivists want a girlified guides that trans women can join. Or to kill the movement?!

Also British guiding overseas...

Presumably all the girl scouts /other members of waggs (can't remember the acronym) Will still run - even if girl guides uk implodes?

Do our policies affect them? Are other girl guides remaining female sex only?

A guide group near to me folded as the leader refused to agree to a trans child joining as she did not think it appropriate for the trans girl to share a tent with the girls at camp. Plus several parents removed their DD's for that reason. No one wanted to take over as leader so the group folded.

FFS.

Re Scouts, my son is in a mixed sex group and they said that accommodation overnight would be mixed sex but to contact them if anyone was unhappy about it. In my opinion this is better than claiming to provide single sex accommodation but not actually doing so.

Active leader here too where my Guides do adventurous activities - sure I'm creating the next generation of pyromaniacs 😁 Matching stance as pp, if a penis joins our unit I won't turn them away but I will have no choice but to leave myself as I disagree with the policy for a variety of reasons (And trust me, I'm not alone) But ssshhh, I'll be booted out if I actually voice that opinion 😒

And male guide leaders...

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/26/labour-peer-jan-royall-girlguiding-taught-me-girls-can-do-anything
Damage limitation...I think it's going to take more than a cheery bit of nostalgia in the Guardian to change minds.

*In my area, a few girls are in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts. They either have separate rooms/tents or share with the Leaders of the same sex, as far as I am aware.

Scouting takes safeguarding very seriously*

In Scouts, under 18s never, ever share tents with leaders. They may occasionally share a large room (ie sleepover in a large hall with no other rooms available) but in this case, there will be separate sleeping areas for young people and leaders, perhaps divided by screens, or pop up tents etc. Every effort is made to ensure that leaders and young people are given separate areas and privacy, and if it's not possible, then that accommodation should not be used.

Mixed accommodation is allowed in scouts, but must always be agreed in conjunction with parents and young people. In practice, it's usual that girls and boys will have separate tents. However, as an example, we recently had a residential where we had only one girl attending (they were cubs, so aged 8-10), and she wanted to share rather than have her own room. We advised parents in advance of this, and asked them to contact us if they had any concerns. We also gave the girl a separate bathroom for changing/washing etc.

The general ethos in Scouts is one of openness and transparency, and taking both the views of parents and young people in to account. Any decisions made must be given a great deal of thought, and also risk assessed.

The Guides my dd goes to does lots of adventurous stuff, camping, climbing, fire etc - it depends on the leader and what the girls want to do.

I note no reference to making sure the girls are happy if a trans girl wishes to stay a female tent!

It does make reference to this in the following All young members should be involved in advance when planning trips away to make sure they feel happy and comfortable with the arrangements

While scout leaders can't share the fact that a child is trans without the trans child's permission, they should make sure that everyone is ok with mixed sharing (and should change plans to suit everyone if they are not ok), and there are ways of making sure everyone is happy. The rights of a trans child does not take away from the rights of girls, but all aspects/arrangements are taken in to account when planning. A lot of thought will go in to this.

An underage girl is not the person who should be deciding on whether to share sleeping or showering accommodation with a man. That decision rests with her parents. Who apparently have been kept in the dark that a male will be sleeping with their daughter.

I do wonder if they are in financial trouble, first the ditching of guiding overseas (and they have behaved appallingly over that) and now the outdoor centres up for sale.

Girl Guiding has completely lost its way.

It says it's for girls exclusively.

And then it welcomes male bodied people.

And has a policy of not allowing the girls to know about the male bodied people with whom they'll be sharing tents and showers.

The lack of respect and safeguarding is despicable.