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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Secretary of State for Education Gillian Keegan MN webchat - on 'trans' guidance for schools.

19 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 17:08

From 18 minutes, hopefully the link goes directly to the question.

Paraphrasing the 'sex and gender' question:

ValancyRedfern - should I affirm gender identity and keep secret from parents?

GK - I dont agree with that, transparency is important, parents' role very important, parents' first advocate for children.

GK - Call for trans guidance for schools, I'm working with Kemi Badenoch, putting that together. Long consultation, I want everyone's views. Published before summer term and then there'll be a long consultation, be great if MNers could respond to that.

Brief, but sounds sensible as far as it goes.

Mumsnet Asks...Secretary of State for Education Gillian Keegan

On Wednesday 24th May, Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts sat down with Secretary of State for Education Gillian Keegan to ask her Mumsnet users' questions. You...

OP posts:
PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/05/2023 17:47

Problem is that they are putting it up for consultation, not producing guidance, which reduces the likelihood of guidance being in place before the election. I thought they said that they were going to publish guidance, or was this always what they said?

BonfireLady · 25/05/2023 18:17

I thought they said that they were going to publish guidance, or was this always what they said?

Agreed. It does seem like the boundaries have shifted on this timeframe. Thinking positively, they are already sharing very widely some key principles that will be in it, such as tightening up on age appropriate content and also things like her comment about involving parents.

Perhaps the consultation will be a good way of filtering out viewpoints which are not based on verifiable evidence. Regardless of whether they consult or not, there are bound to be many voices which disagree with the proposed guidance. It's an opportunity for anyone who previously may have had a no debate approach (e.g. protest and drown out) to put forward their persuasive, evidence-based argument.

ResisterRex · 25/05/2023 18:18

I would think they now have to consult as without it, the risk of legal challenge...well...not even a risk is it? It's a given.

BonfireLady · 25/05/2023 18:24

ResisterRex · 25/05/2023 18:18

I would think they now have to consult as without it, the risk of legal challenge...well...not even a risk is it? It's a given.

Indeed. I guess it doesn't help that the debate on the clarification of the Equality Act hasn't happened yet.
The ambiguitity within the Act is what underpins the current DfE guidance, which conflates sex and gender, and results in further ambiguity. Many schools then take the guidance and further conflate it all with sexual orientation.

So they are presumably on legally shifting sand at the moment when it comes to the foundations behind the school guidance. Hopefully the EHRC letter from April, in response to Kemi Badenoch's February letter, can break through all of the noise and media misrepresentation so that common sense prevails in the debate on 12th June.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/05/2023 18:27

True. If they can get it all done in time, hopefully it will at least be legally solid.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 19:20

I was a bit confused, tbh, by her timeline. She seemed to say guidelines/consultation/guidelines?

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FigRollsAlly · 25/05/2023 19:27

Did she mean draft guidelines/consultation/guidelines?

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/05/2023 19:39

Probably draft guidelines to consult on, followed by actual guidelines that take into account the results of the consultation?

Leafstamp · 25/05/2023 19:54
Leafstamp · 25/05/2023 19:56

But whether that means the guidance for gender questioning children will be consulted on (as she seemed to indicate in the interview), who knows?!

ValancyRedfern · 25/05/2023 20:29

Ooh fame at last! I haven't watched yet but thanks for the link. The guidance was originally promised to come out last Autumn so I'm not holding my breath.

ValancyRedfern · 25/05/2023 20:40

The timeline makes no sense. The summer term started after Easter. If she means the last half term, then that starts on the 5th June so she's got a week to get the guidance out.

Also, why do they need to consult on the guidance? They know what responses they'll get. It just seems like a delaying tactic.

Very happy to hear her say categorically that parents should be told though. Which I could share with my slt, but don't want them to know my posting name!!!

rogdmum · 25/05/2023 20:59

The plan was always that this would be draft guidance put out for public consultation. What worries me is that she is saying a LONG consultation which to me sounds like more and more delay (to an already very much delayed piece of work) and kicking the can even further down the road before we get anything of substance from the govt.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 21:19

Yes. Given the Scotgov's awful approach to consultations (demand masses of input from people, then ignore it and go with whatever you feel like) I'm less and less convinced of their value, except as a way of saying 'we did ask you'.

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DarkDayforMN · 26/05/2023 13:09

Is it possibly they’re kicking the can down the road because they want this to be an election issue?

ValancyRedfern · 26/05/2023 17:45

I think it's more likely they just don't want to deal with it at all

BonfireLady · 31/05/2023 21:21

IcakethereforeIam · 31/05/2023 20:12

I'm not sure if this is the most appropriate thread, please feel free to repost.

Tra toys are not yet airborne but it's only a matter of time.

Interesting deviation from the Guardian. I wouldn't call it entirely balanced but it's heading in that direction. It's certainly a change from the "everything is fine, nothing to see here, you're all bigots" line that they normally take. Progress, albeit slowly.

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