Ed Davey is just every inexplicably over-promoted, middle-aged bloke mansplaining a in meeting.

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

I know there's other threads on this and I don't know why this 'got' me so much.

I am just so tired of it.

I sit in meetings listening to nice, reasonable men saying things like 'of course we oppose violence against girls and women'. With their pronouns in their email signatures, of course.

I was listening to the radio this morning about the string of errors that led to Couzens being free to do what he did to Sarah Everard.

Then this, with Ed patiently explaining it all to Mary.

Don't they ever listen to themselves? Don't they ever think, hang on, an actual woman is telling me there's a problem here, maybe I should listen?

It makes me feel like crying, sometimes.

And besides, the government ran a public consultation after consulting with transgender rights groups who wanted laws changed to favour men over women.

Was that just a distraction? They are angry about the result of the consultation and are still insisting the government must do what they want irrespective of the outcome. Is that a distraction?

Should we not be distracted and let the law be changed without scrutiny?

It’s fundamental and basic

If they can’t grasp this they don’t deserve to be in

They should sit out until they completely change

Yeah. Agree with all of that. I guess I am dealing with a conspiracy theory or similar.

So the argument goes something like - while you women are busy arguing about something that in the overall scheme of things isn't that important, politicians and the like are free to make decisions on really important stuff like the economy etc... My argument thus far has been along the lines that it is important and it is a big deal and that it's misogyny in disguise etc... But I don't seem to land my points very well.

The individual does agree that overall it's an issue just that it's a small issue.

Every time this mansplaining tosspot opens his mouth he hammers another nail into the coffin of the possibility of me ever voting Lib Dem again.

How dare he? How dare he tell women he knows better than us about what a woman is, and that we are bigots if we don't agree?

Fuck off, Ed, you utter waste of oxygen.

How can I find out what gender the doctor who delivered me decided I was? Because all that is recorded on my birth certificate is my sex.

If that's true, why didn't Stella Creasy delegate pregnancy and breastfeeding to her male partner, rather than whingeing endlessly about how MPs don't get maternity leave and not being allowed to breastfeed in the House of Commons?

Ask them if they would protest if disabled people couldn't vote. Or trans people.

I would focus less on the how and more on the why.

For example, if toilets and changing rooms should be organised according to the non-physical characteristic of gender identity rather than the physical characteristic of sex, why aren't there toilets and changing rooms for non binary people? Why don't we have urinals in women's toilets for women with penises and sanitary bins in men's toilets for men with uteruses?

If sports should be organised according to a non-physical characteristic rather than the physical characteristic of sex, why gender identity and not star sign or favourite colour?

I'm just loving his petulant "...look, I've been very clear on this..."

Ask them if they would protest if disabled people couldn't vote. Or trans people.

@determinedtomakethiswork What's your point?

(And just for the record I am disabled, as are both my children.)

My point was, even though it would affect the people closest to them (wives, daughters, mothers) a lot of men wouldn't, and clearly aren't, standing up for women's rights - they're just not particularly bothered, even though they might pretend to be.

Also - disabled people are genuinely one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in our society. I do not personally believe that trans people as a group are as marginalised and vulnerable, so should not be lumped into comparisons like you've done in your reply to me.

I thought the point being made is that misogyny is really the last acceptable prejudice, so if asked directly, most men would feel obliged to say they would march in protest if trans people or disabled people were deprived of the right to vote (even if in reality they probably wouldn't bother), whereas for some reason it is more acceptable to admit that you wouldn't actually be that fussed if women were deprived of the right to vote.

Ed Davey is the LibDem's Matt Hancock - promoted way beyond his actual competence.

It's another indicator of the permanence and reality of sex. Men in general have the privilege of not needing to care about things unless they are personally affected: they don't even have to have them on their radar.

My father was all 'well it doesn't really affect me so why should I be interested' when I first started to talk to him about this. When I pointed out what this meant for his daughters and grand daughters, and he realised about overnight school trips and changing rooms, he was livid and wrote to his MP.

It was not until I pointed out a direct threat to his property/people he cares about that he saw any issue. That was when it affected him. Although a few years on, he's now increasingly fed up with the endless hyperbole and ramming down throats and boundary pushing which also affects him.

His biggest sin was that as Energy SoS in the coalition govt, he was instrumental in winding down our natural gas reserves to serve the ZeroC policy. And we're paying dearly for that in 2023.