Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/05/2023 16:23

That's a courageous group of young women. Well done them.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 16/05/2023 16:25

lechiffre55 · 16/05/2023 14:25

It's much easier to be progressive when it's someone else's rights and safety you are giving away for virtue points.

so true

aloris · 16/05/2023 19:45

DarkDayforMN · 16/05/2023 14:25

He might have been “eligible” but the members did not have to vote to admit him.

They kind of did, if you listen to them tell their stories. Older members of the sorority were knocking on people's doors to make sure that they'd voted and telling anyone who might consider voting against him that their values weren't compatible with the sorority's and they should leave - a message passed down from the national head office of the sorority. The vote wasn't anonymous - a special exceptional procedure for this guy, as the process is normally anonymous. They also seemed to have waived the grade requirement as a special exceptional procedure for the male "sorority sister."

I'm actually amazed the sorority couldn't find a more photogenic/appealing test case. Or one who at least met the grade requirements. Or at the very least, one who could keep his hands off his dick. This guy is such an obvious example of someone who shouldn't be there. Or is this what you select for, when you select for men who want to invade women's spaces against their will?

I read the same thing in news reports. It sounds as if there were ample ways they should have declined to admit the person, and instead they made special exceptions to their own rules so that they could admit the person. The women were locked in to lease agreements and would have been out of pocket for significant money if they had moved out, so they were really stuck in the situation where they were subjected to the inappropriate behavior. This seems like a case where the refusal to acknowledge the reality of sex has had a material negative effect on female-bodied people, so I am curious to see how it plays out in the legal world. If the sorority is not held liable for breach of contract, I think it essentially says it's game over for women's bodily privacy here.

There has also been an acquittal of a transwoman who disrobed in the women's locker room in Ohio and that was based on the failure to prove anyone saw male genitals. However the question of whether female-bodied people were viewed in the nude, without their consent, by a male-bodied person, was not addressed; leaving that concern out of news reports implies that women have no right not to be viewed by male-bodied people when we access public facilities, even when such facilities are officially sex-segregated for the purpose of allowing people who need to disrobe, to do so away from the opposite sex.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/05/2023 20:18

Can we not victim-blame this group of young women, who have been gaslit and pressured by society and older people, who should know better, and who have still found the courage to speak out?

LaviniasBigBloomers · 16/05/2023 20:23

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/05/2023 20:18

Can we not victim-blame this group of young women, who have been gaslit and pressured by society and older people, who should know better, and who have still found the courage to speak out?

Indeed and let's remember that these wealthy white young women have grown up being told that they are the problem, that they are weaponising their femininity and their white woman tears and whatever the fuck else they'd got. It's a fairly delicious irony that daddy's money is funding a lawsuit to stop this nonsense.

The whole point of a sorority (from where I'm sitting) is compliance. We think the same, we do the same, we act and believe the same. They're in a prime position to be gaslit.

Helleofabore · 16/05/2023 21:30

DarkDayforMN · 16/05/2023 14:25

He might have been “eligible” but the members did not have to vote to admit him.

They kind of did, if you listen to them tell their stories. Older members of the sorority were knocking on people's doors to make sure that they'd voted and telling anyone who might consider voting against him that their values weren't compatible with the sorority's and they should leave - a message passed down from the national head office of the sorority. The vote wasn't anonymous - a special exceptional procedure for this guy, as the process is normally anonymous. They also seemed to have waived the grade requirement as a special exceptional procedure for the male "sorority sister."

I'm actually amazed the sorority couldn't find a more photogenic/appealing test case. Or one who at least met the grade requirements. Or at the very least, one who could keep his hands off his dick. This guy is such an obvious example of someone who shouldn't be there. Or is this what you select for, when you select for men who want to invade women's spaces against their will?

It seemed to be a coerced vote and certainly not ‘free choice’.

These are now brave young women speaking out.

LizzieSiddal · 16/05/2023 22:02

So utterly sad yet predicable that these young women are having to go through this utter shit show.

viques · 16/05/2023 22:08

WickedSerious · 16/05/2023 13:06

I like the way he's been circled,in case we couldn't spot the bloke.

It’s like playing Where’s Wally isn’t it? Except a lot easier.

Delphinium20 · 16/05/2023 22:38

I've been to Laramie, the university town in Wyoming, and while the state is indeed beautiful and the people friendly, there's not a lot going on in this town (pop of entire state of Wyoming is 583,279), so I imagine these sororities provide these young women a lot of their social activity, entertainment and friendships. Wyoming is nothing like California, South Carolina or Alabama, so you don't have the debutante, wealthy family money southern belle culture often negatively portrayed in sororities. This particular sorority house in Wyoming is a simple bauhaus brick structure that looks like a 70s dormitory vs. the antebellum historical mansions you'll find for sororities in the South.

I never attended a sorority myself, but I feel these women need extra context because I don't see them as ultra privileged elitists at all.

RealityFan · 16/05/2023 22:58

I'm guilty as a guy of lazily saying to females that the solution is in their hands, you don't like it so do something about it.

I really regret my brainless words, because just like Riley Gaines and the Penn State Uni female swimming team, the female cyclists humiliated by Austin Killips, and umpteen other examples, there is no feasible way for the girls at this college to fight back or not comply even if they wanted to.

The blame is not with them. It's with the shameful adults and elites who are not only happy with humiliating these girls by forcing them to allow a male predator to share their space, but likely threatening them with cancelling their future of they speak up.

DdraigGoch · 16/05/2023 23:12

ammpersand · 16/05/2023 13:14

Well, if true, this person's behaviour would also be unacceptable from a woman in the house.

Except that a woman wouldn't do it in the first place.

Inamuddle36 · 16/05/2023 23:49

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/05/2023 20:18

Can we not victim-blame this group of young women, who have been gaslit and pressured by society and older people, who should know better, and who have still found the courage to speak out?

I don’t think it is “victim blaming” to ask why the young women didn’t push back against the process. Clearly, the sorority management was wrong to push for a positive vote. But university students — who are capable of organising protests for a wide range of issues — should have had the confidence to push back against a distant HQ. I am glad they have found the confidence now and hope they succeed in their lawsuit.
As an aside, as others have pointed out, the students are not necessarily privileged and wealthy. Being a member of a sorority does involve some costs beyond a normal university food plan (or housing plan), but not out of reach for those who work during term time, as many/most US university students do.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2023 00:00

viques · 16/05/2023 22:08

It’s like playing Where’s Wally isn’t it? Except a lot easier.

Show quote history

Where's Willy?

BadSkiingMum · 17/05/2023 07:03

The last few years have certainly changed my perspective on sororities - a place for women to gather and live together seems pretty important. I looked at a few links last night and they certainly seem to talk about becoming more diverse, although perhaps too inclusive in this instance.

What happened to the all-female university colleges that were around in the UK?

QuintanaRoo · 17/05/2023 07:15

One thing which annoys me about this is that sorieties are so picky about who they let in that if a woman looked as ungroomed as he does she would never have been allowed in. I seem to have an awful lot of soriety and “rushing” videos in my tiktok feed. They are nearly without exception white, majority are blonde, very well groomed, 100% slim.

If a female turned up overweight, with a greasy, straggly Bob and a beanie hat they’d be laughed out the door.

Casilero · 17/05/2023 07:17

It's says in the article that a number of women have already left the sorority over this and now there are only 8 members. If the court case fails they could all leave and then it would be a sorority of one. Or a fraternity of one. That might send a better message to HO. Fine, let men in, but you can't have it both ways.

FannyCann · 17/05/2023 08:27

The only surprise is it hasn't happened sooner. Where else can they get a chance to join in with pillow fights?

Inamuddle36 · 17/05/2023 09:09

QuintanaRoo · 17/05/2023 07:15

One thing which annoys me about this is that sorieties are so picky about who they let in that if a woman looked as ungroomed as he does she would never have been allowed in. I seem to have an awful lot of soriety and “rushing” videos in my tiktok feed. They are nearly without exception white, majority are blonde, very well groomed, 100% slim.

If a female turned up overweight, with a greasy, straggly Bob and a beanie hat they’d be laughed out the door.

QuintanaRoo: just to clarify (though not directly relevant to this discussion) the videos you have seen presumably are of the historically “white” sororities. There are also some very strong historically “black” sororities. The best known is, I think, Alpha Kappa Alpha (of which VP Kamala Harris was/is a member).

QuintanaRoo · 17/05/2023 10:25

Inamuddle36 · 17/05/2023 09:09

QuintanaRoo: just to clarify (though not directly relevant to this discussion) the videos you have seen presumably are of the historically “white” sororities. There are also some very strong historically “black” sororities. The best known is, I think, Alpha Kappa Alpha (of which VP Kamala Harris was/is a member).

Show quote history

Yes, very probably. I think it’s mainly Alabama rush videos I’ve seen and I suspect that’s probably a very white college full stop. Good to know that there’s other sororities with better representation. But my comments on being overweight and ungroomed would still stand. 😁

Misstache · 18/05/2023 00:37

This is quite encouraging. Read the comments as well. A surprising absence of people being called TERFS and NAZIS and people validating the womens’ feelings:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM2doyg6U/

Misstache · 18/05/2023 00:37

This is quite encouraging. Read the comments as well. A surprising absence of people being called TERFS and NAZIS and people validating the womens’ feelings:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM2doyg6U/

Misstache · 18/05/2023 00:38

This is quite encouraging. Read the comments as well. A surprising absence of people being called TERFS and NAZIS and people validating the womens’ feelings:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM2doyg6U/

Misstache · 18/05/2023 00:39

Ugh sorry for triple post!

namitynamechange · 09/09/2023 15:19

@RealityFan The worst case of that for me was that Vermont school basketball team who forfeited a match rather than play against a male on the opposite team. Not only were they banned from competitions with other schools but so was the entire school - so every single child in a sports team/activity group in the school. I mean fair play to the school for standing by their principles but it must be so so hard to do when not only are you punished but everyone connected to you is. Especially when these are children. Especially when (not in the Vermont case) the adults/teachers are actively against you making a stand.

For school sports especially it has to come from the grownups in charge (male or female). Expecting literal children to take it on alone is so cruel.